[212Export]

Dear friends

Since some times I have been "falling in love" with the idea of having a second Ferrari besides the Scuderia (which should arrive in July). In the past I had the luck of owning often 2 Ferraris at the same time (not more because of space reasons and else as well). But most of the time I owned either own modern and one vintage Ferrari or 2 vintage Ferraris. Even though while talking about the nice 330 GTC experiences I believe (in my stomach) that the prices for what you get on vintage Ferraris are simply to high in these times. Even with all the love and enthusiasm for the history and the wonderful old (hand)works on all these wonderful old Ferraris which I had the thankful chance to own, one should never forget that any engine or gearbox breakage may just be 100 miles in front of you. Call in the expensive restoration needs, the even more expensive labor charge of Ferrari specialists in these days and in times the difficult availability of parts for some rather rare cars and you may write your own invitation card to the "poorhouse".

In addition personally I followed the partially absurd discussion in Germany in 2007 about the banning of so called old, unclean cars without catalysators from the city centers and I started asking myself if I was the last person in the world who had the chance to still drive these "Dinosaurs" and after sell 'em without a loss !?

That's how the idea of owning ...a Ferrari Supercar started to form.

But which one: the 288 GTO is already a classic, sharp, rare (and in my opinion very expensive) but not so outstanding (maybe in 1984) in my imagination. Its the only supercar I never drove or Co-drove. So 288 GTO is rather no option for me.

The Enzo is too "flamboyant" within my aesthethic well feeling. By Co-driving in on a track it felt "soft" even in the "race" modus. Please get me right, I do not want sound "expertish" (I'm definitively NOT) but somehow the car felt like not myself. In addition, and not to unimportant, I believe that the Enzo is way to expensive (for my own willing to spend money for a certain kind of car and in real terms).

The F40: I have driven this car 4 times, each around 20 - 30 km. Great road-holding feeling, light, nimble, loud and a classic. Even place for luggage for a 3day trip. Additionaly, no need for great restorations (Carbon does not rust, does it? ) I believe a phantastic price/what you get ratio. Only down: For my personality a little "flamboyant" but less than the Enzo.

The F50: I was lucky enough to have driven the F50 a couple of times for totally 100 km's. One word: Phantastic! Great roadholding, NO body rolling, phantastic looks, great material, no restoration need (again carbon..isn't it? ) Wonderful, linear acceleration feeling, beautiful interior, spectacular exterior, still competitive to other supercars, only example of a true F1 technique application to engine and carbon chassis outlay. Only down: Interior noise of chains over time and missing lugagge space. (and price? )

I have been reading Boxer's comment's on his F40 and F50 with great interest and have soaked up everything readable under the planet on both these models. But reading alone will not help, I want to move on.....but which one ?

Since I live in Switzerland it helps to have a Swiss legalized F40 or F50 and now since 3 weeks there are 1 of each on sale.

The F40 for app. Euro 260' with 28' kilometers on the odo, a beautiful F50 with only 14' k's for around Euro 430'.

The F40 has been owned by the dealer for the last 3 years. He used it well and drove it around 8'k for this time. The tanks, clutch and belts have been changed recently.

The F50 had 2 owners and was delivered in 1997 to its first owner here in Switzerland. The second owner applied a CD/radio machine to it with cables going below a self invented very small carbon channel which is only lightly glued to the carbon entry side at the pedal/legs room (easy removable), the box to put the roof in is missing but will be newly delivered by Ferrari, Italy, everything else is correct and the car would be compleately serviced and confirmed as perfect by my Ferrari concessionaire before delivery. All this at the cost of the vendor of course.
Both cars has been checked as accident free thru the Ferrari computer system and also all technical updates over time from Ferrari have been applied to the cars.

The price difference is obvious (and natural I guess), I'm thinking around the situation that if I decide for one and would not be satisfyied, how realistically would it be to have a market on one of them. In this sense I believe the F40 is no problem at all, regarding the F50 I'm not so sure.
Personally I tend to the F50 overall (except the economics) but the F40 is already a classic (to take place for my previously owned classics?)

I know its me to come to a decision finally but I would appreciate any comments and thoughts from you all.
Thank you all for your patience and help.

[Chrishawk4]

I have never personally driven or owned one. I have talked in person to an owner of an F40 and I've heard nothing but good. If I had the money I would seriously look into the F40, it might be bias but that is just my 2 cents.

Chris

[Andrew]

Well if the F40 or F50 are your only two choices then you do have a difficult decision. As you point out, economics are a major factor. You could probably get two F40s for the price of an F50.

As you pointed out the decision is yours so I don't have too many words of wisdom on this one. Having said that, I would get the F40 first. It's half the price of the F50 and in many ways just as amazing. If after sometime you think it isn't the right fit, you can trade it for an F50.

[agp22]

I think that Boxer is qualified to give a practical opinion. Personally, I can't give a realistic opinion as I don't know any of the cars. However, since I don't particularly like turbo engines, I would prefer the F50. Yet the F40 is stunning.
Best of luck

[stile - alpine]

that decision is too hard to make, you have to do like Boxer and have both =) hehehehe

[JazzyO]

As agp22, I can't offer any real advice. But the price difference is rather large and you could do a lot of other stuff with that money.

I think you need to consider how you would feel if you bought the F40. Would you then still be pining after the F50? In that case you should buy the F50.

Happy hunting!


Onno

[212Export]

Many thanks for your thoughts and help. Its great to have you all around here to discuss such "problems".

Probably enjoying the soon to arrive Scuderia should realistically be first choice after all for this summer and in the meantime I should step back and wait for the right decision (also price) to develop. Maybe I should hold back my enthusiasm for that while.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

As agp22, I can't offer any real advice. But the price difference is rather large and you could do a lot of other stuff with that money.

I think you need to consider how you would feel if you bought the F40. Would you then still be pining after the F50? In that case you should buy the F50.

Happy hunting!


Onno

You are totally right, if I imagine having the F40 in the Garage.....oh what a wonderful Turbo day ........ but the F50 is....just a little more....

Yes, you are right again, I could do other things with the spare money, invest it in stocks at lower levels or buying these incredibly cheap "subprime" papers or high yield bonds which have been priced at 80% to par and now are trading at 40%, great opportunities allover. But I honestly must tell you that making money after all has a deeper sense. Making money to me after securing the basics means nothing less or more than enabeling intellectual freedom. And what do we do partially with intellectual freedom....we are joining the forum to discuss and philosph about one of the most beautiful things...which Ferrari to experience. So we are at the same point again

It would be very interesting to listen to the kind of thoughts which cross your minds when deciding for your own good on this or that car.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by 212Export

It would be very interesting to listen to the kind of thoughts which cross your minds when deciding for your own good on this or that car.

When I was going through the 6 months of hunting for my 550, I shared the whole process on another forum. How I came to decide on the 550, the cars I was looking at, how I decided to discard this one or that one, etc..

I've had many, many, reactions from people that said they were completely fascinated by following the process. Conversely, when it came to making a decision on a car while I was in Africa, some of those people went and checked out the car for me. It was almost like a communal purchase. A lovely thing to experience.

So, yes, I'll keep everyone abreast of my thoughts and decisions as I look for a second Ferrari. First we need my stock to go up again though, it dropped 30% last week!


Onno

[212Export]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

When I was going through the 6 months of hunting for my 550, I shared the whole process on another forum. How I came to decide on the 550, the cars I was looking at, how I decided to discard this one or that one, etc..

I've had many, many, reactions from people that said they were completely fascinated by following the process. Conversely, when it came to making a decision on a car while I was in Africa, some of those people went and checked out the car for me. It was almost like a communal purchase. A lovely thing to experience.

So, yes, I'll keep everyone abreast of my thoughts and decisions as I look for a second Ferrari. First we need my stock to go up again though, it dropped 30% last week!


Onno

Thank you for your kind comment, and good luck and patience to all of your investments ! And good luck to all of you and lets stay close together to help each other out whenever such help may be appropriate !

Happy eastern.

[JJS612]

With intellectual freedom, and the money, why not learn from Boxer and buy both.

Now there is a decision!

[212Export]

Originally Posted by JJS612

With intellectual freedom, and the money, why not learn from Boxer and buy both.

Now there is a decision!

It clearly looks like the solution. But as I mentioned before, 2 Ferraris at a time are my personal maximum barrier. I would have storage problems otherwise and I decided last August to order the Scuderia. In addition the financial "stretch" would be rather too large.

Congratulations to your very beautiful 612 ! Do you have kids to join in the backseats ?

[Pete04222]

212Export,
You do have quite the dilemma. How to chose between an F40 and an F50. You have made valuable arguements for both. What I would do if I were you is make friends with Boxer, fly to the country where he lives, rent a car and offer to take him and his family out to dinner. I'm sure he would be more than happy to let you observe the 2 cars side by side and share his personal experiences with each one. Since you have the means and are leaning towards the F50, I'd say that the F50 would be the one to choose.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by 212Export

The F40 for app. Euro 260' with 28' kilometers on the odo, a beautiful F50 with only 14' k's for around Euro 430'.

The F40 has been owned by the dealer for the last 3 years. He used it well and drove it around 8'k for this time. The tanks, clutch and belts have been changed recently.

Euro 260k is the lowest price I have seen on a good F40 in quite some time. Most seem to be in the Euro 300k range. Any idea why he is willing to part with it for a bit under market ?

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Boxer

Euro 260k is the lowest price I have seen on a good F40 in quite some time. Most seem to be in the Euro 300k range. Any idea why he is willing to part with it for a bit under market ?

I have no idea. The seller is a huge car dealer mostly trading German imports into Switzerland. I have seen the car some time ago and to my believ the seller but this F40 at a much lower price then. (You may remember the 2002-2003 crisis, Euro low, Swiss Franc strong) He bought the car quite lower some time ago. The car must be in good condition, I've not seen it but plan to do this week. But the tanks, cambelt and clutch they say have been changed 1 year ago by my Ferrari concessionaire.
So I will check this week and have more details. Besides...maybe...finally..prices are getting softer on Supercars as well...who knows. The layoff of tenthousand of people in N.Y. and Londons Finacial industry may have a damper on it as well (as heard this morning on Swiss news)

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Pete04222

212Export,
You do have quite the dilemma. How to chose between an F40 and an F50. You have made valuable arguements for both. What I would do if I were you is make friends with Boxer, fly to the country where he lives, rent a car and offer to take him and his family out to dinner. I'm sure he would be more than happy to let you observe the 2 cars side by side and share his personal experiences with each one. Since you have the means and are leaning towards the F50, I'd say that the F50 would be the one to choose.

I had contact with Boxer several times and he is a most wonderful, warm, sharing person with a very pationate attitude. The idea is great and sometime in the future out I would greatly appreciate to meet him and his spectacular Garage.
Nevertheless its unfair to "steal" somebody's precious time for a "conflict" which has to be solved in my brain (and nowhere else!). I have driven both examples on several occasions, have studied and looked at them often.
To me the F50 is the more complete car, but as somebody mentioned before its about 60% higher in price. Is it worth it to start this path right at the top (this means the top of my personal options and possibilities) or would the F40 be great thing to start and leave everything else to come open?

[Pete04222]

Sounds like you want the F50 but you just have cold feet. If you can afford it then I say go for it. You aren't ever going to lose money on the car. The money you spend on maintenance is your "user fee" and you will always be able to sell it for what you paid. A much better investment than the stock market these days.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Pete04222

Sounds like you want the F50 but you just have cold feet. If you can afford it then I say go for it. You aren't ever going to lose money on the car. The money you spend on maintenance is your "user fee" and you will always be able to sell it for what you paid. A much better investment than the stock market these days.

Cold feet....I guess you hit the jackpot Why I'm talking always about my brain decision (I anyway have none when its a question of the feets

We will see....I'll take a very close look at the F40 and then decide. Thank you for your sincere words !!

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Cold feet....I guess you hit the jackpot Why I'm talking always about my brain decision (I anyway have none when its a question of the feets

We will see....I'll take a very close look at the F40 and then decide. Thank you for your sincere words !!

I am very interested to hear your impressions after seeing the F40.

However I believe the real question that needs to be asked is, do you really want the 430 Scuderia ?

[JJS612]

212 Export,

Yes I do have a daughter to enjoy the back seats, part of the decision making process. As for your choice, I would opt for the F50 - as you said the more complete car. Like me, you wouldn't even be considering it if finance was the main driver. Always aim to exceed your goals. How can you say the sky is the limit, when there are footsteps on the moon!!