[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by brettgagnon

But we know Boxer, you and I, that Jimmy is like a kid in a Candy Store right now, and they are sold out of his candy, patience goes only so far

More like an old fart kid (pardon my language). w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

My novice guess is that the implosion is imminent and maybe a crash in the market. Thoughts ???
w/ smiles Jimmy

If prices are rising day by day it is definitely spiralling out of control and you should hang back. Times like this never last.


Onno

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

If prices are rising day by day it is definitely spiralling out of control and you should hang back. Times like this never last.


Onno

Indeed, it is, Onno. Maybe, I should wait out till everything crashes, then things may fall. w/ smiles Jimmy

[212Export]

The 288 GTO market is a very small market. Its small as just a few at a given time are offered and its small because the build numbers always was small. But now with these "lofty" prices its getting even smaller from the "bid" side as fewer and fewer people potentially are up to buy one....that's the theoretical side.

Problem is..with rising prices on certain types of F-cars, certain group of people only got attracted by rising prices (as funny as that may sound). To them a car just gained "attractiveness" by its ever raising prices and by the level those prices have reached nowadays. Therefore rising prices may even increase the number of worldwide "want-to-be-buyers" of a 288 GTO. Just my 2 cents.

Also, I wait for the classic market to fall since almost 4 years and I have been wrong all the time. Its like in the stock market..bull markets tend to grow much longer and further than most bears would imagine...to finally end after all bears have thrown in their towels.
As written/discussed in many previous threads the nail for the coffin needs and will be raising interest rates. ATM the replacement cost for capital to hold on classic car investmens are just to low, with other word capital is no big competitor ATM. People in need for capital long ago have replaced their classics against capital or were never able to hold the classics. The game will probably change a little when interest rates are 5-7% for "risk free" investments and therefore the opportunity costs to hold classic car will rise strongly opposite to today's situation.

So, Jimmy, you could probably buy a 288 GTO and short the US Treasury market as a kind of weird hedge.

[Barry]

Originally Posted by 212Export

The 288 GTO market is a very small market. Its small as just a few at a given time are offered and its small because the build numbers always was small. But now with these "lofty" prices its getting even smaller from the "bid" side as fewer and fewer people potentially are up to buy one....that's the theoretical side.

Problem is..with rising prices on certain types of F-cars, certain group of people only got attracted by rising prices (as funny as that may sound). To them a car just gained "attractiveness" by its ever raising prices and by the level those prices have reached nowadays. Therefore rising prices may even increase the number of worldwide "want-to-be-buyers" of a 288 GTO. Just my 2 cents.

Also, I wait for the classic market to fall since almost 4 years and I have been wrong all the time. Its like in the stock market..bull markets tend to grow much longer and further than most bears would imagine...to finally end after all bears have thrown in their towels.
As written/discussed in many previous threads the nail for the coffin needs and will be raising interest rates. ATM the replacement cost for capital to hold on classic car investmens are just to low, with other word capital is no big competitor ATM. People in need for capital long ago have replaced their classics against capital or were never able to hold the classics. The game will probably change a little when interest rates are 5-7% for "risk free" investments and therefore the opportunity costs to hold classic car will rise strongly opposite to today's situation.

So, Jimmy, you could probably buy a 288 GTO and short the US Treasury market as a kind of weird hedge.

I like that 212. You nearly convinced me to take out a mortgage on a Ferrari Supercar. (I think I'll ring Anglo Irish Bank, I hear they are good for such unsecured loans.... )

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Barry

I like that 212. You nearly convinced me to take out a mortgage on a Ferrari Supercar. (I think I'll ring Anglo Irish Bank, I hear they are good for such unsecured loans.... )

Barry, interest rates for your bank are already at 50% as it is rated "D", so hedging it (selling short the bonds) would have been tremendeosly successfull.

Joke aside I hope you did not misunderstood me. I'm 300% against any debt, I just wanted to make a point that people, which are seeing it the opposite way around (and they are in a huge majority against my point, for sure) probably are willing to bid up the price of collectibles because of the cheap availability of capital.

[Barry]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Barry, interest rates for your bank are already at 50% as it is rated "D", so hedging it (selling short the bonds) would have been tremendeosly successfull.

Joke aside I hope you did not misunderstood me. I'm 300% against any debt, I just wanted to make a point that people, which are seeing it the opposite way around (and they are in a huge majority against my point, for sure) probably are willing to bid up the price of collectibles because of the cheap availability of capital.

I do of course see your point perfectly 212. And am also in that contingent of "don't borrow for your toys" group.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Barry

I do of course see your point perfectly 212. And am also in that contingent of "don't borrow for your toys" group.

Sadly Ireland still pays 8% () interest to the EU, thanks to a "great" negotiation by your previous governement. Unbelievable. Interest cost alone is 2.5 Billion euro per year. And Ireland did it perfectly after all the mess, you guys should be awarded....but no..those who are willing and successfull to sacrify are get hit even more. Go and tell Brussel you are willing to pay 3% and save 1.5 Bio. per year interest payment and use the difference to pay down debt. You would be debt free pretty soon that way !

[Barry]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Sadly Ireland still pays 8% () interest to the EU, thanks to a "great" negotiation by your previous governement. Unbelievable. Interest cost alone is 2.5 Billion euro per year. And Ireland did it perfectly after all the mess, you guys should be awarded....but no..those who are willing and successfull to sacrify are get hit even more. Go and tell Brussel you are willing to pay 3% and save 1.5 Bio. per year interest payment and use the difference to pay down debt. You would be debt free pretty soon that way !

And to make matters worse, our current government (which is no better than the previous bunch of fools, have agreed (or been forced to agree?) to pay all the unsecured bond holders for Anglo Irish bank, more €billions of tax payers money, being spent to completely bankrupt the country.

Though I do agree, we have tried to put things back in place, but with those kinds of bills over your head, its hard to see the reason why....

Anyway - I apologise, I'm so far off topic now.

Back to 288 GTO's (there none of them in Ireland )

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Barry

And to make matters worse, our current government (which is no better than the previous bunch of fools, have agreed (or been forced to agree?) to pay all the unsecured bond holders for Anglo Irish bank, more €billions of tax payers money, being spent to completely bankrupt the country.

Though I do agree, we have tried to put things back in place, but with those kinds of bills over your head, its hard to see the reason why....

Anyway - I apologise, I'm so far off topic now.

Back to 288 GTO's (there none of them in Ireland )

Oh barry, sometimes we need to talk about those "background's" as it enables or disenables us to have the joy of F-ownership.

[dm18]

288GTO is in a funny position. It went from being the unloved supercar wannabe that is viewed as 308 to being a rare and prized car. So the increase feels big because the starting point was low. I paid roughly the same for my 288GTO and my F40 although I felt at the time the 288GTO was worth twice as much. The "free-float" is quite small and is going down as there are more and more collectors that are building "sets" like all supercars, V8 Supercars, 80's cars, etc. My own view is that GTO will stay around USD1mn for quite a while. That is about double an F40, slightly more than an F50 and well less than an Enzo.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by dm18

288GTO is in a funny position. It went from being the unloved supercar wannabe that is viewed as 308 to being a rare and prized car. So the increase feels big because the starting point was low. I paid roughly the same for my 288GTO and my F40 although I felt at the time the 288GTO was worth twice as much. The "free-float" is quite small and is going down as there are more and more collectors that are building "sets" like all supercars, V8 Supercars, 80's cars, etc. My own view is that GTO will stay around USD1mn for quite a while. That is about double an F40, slightly more than an F50 and well less than an Enzo.

+1

The change from "unloved" to "splendid" over a 20+ years timespan is obvious with some other F-cars as well relatively spoken. I.e. the price appreciation in the last 15 years of the 250 Lusso (US 160' - 700), 275 GTB (US 180-1Mio.) and the Boxer series (US 80' to US 110' only). The next 15 yaers may prove opposite in terms of relative appreciation.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by dm18

288GTO is in a funny position. It went from being the unloved supercar wannabe that is viewed as 308 to being a rare and prized car. So the increase feels big because the starting point was low. I paid roughly the same for my 288GTO and my F40 although I felt at the time the 288GTO was worth twice as much. The "free-float" is quite small and is going down as there are more and more collectors that are building "sets" like all supercars, V8 Supercars, 80's cars, etc. My own view is that GTO will stay around USD1mn for quite a while. That is about double an F40, slightly more than an F50 and well less than an Enzo.

Overall, have to agree with your analysis. Given the very low production numbers, supply is going to short of demand on the 288 GTO for quite a while, especially as "sets" are becoming more popular.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Just received chassis number confirmation from Talacrest, and yes, it is the same car being or was offered at DK Engineering.

Is this the business practice in UK ? DK offered the car for 555 and Talacrest saying 650 ??? All within several days ? If so, I do not think I can be a serious contender there. w/ smiles Jimmy

Apparently this 288GTO is now sold. Price was more than the initial ask from DK

[nmj]

hi Jimmy

i was offered the car in France a few weeks ago and was told the same information re chassis number/deposit !! suffice to say i said thanks but no thanks,

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by nmj

hi Jimmy

i was offered the car in France a few weeks ago and was told the same information re chassis number/deposit !! suffice to say i said thanks but no thanks,

Hello, Nigel !!! Thanx so much for your comments.

It is good to know that it is not myself that is strange and weird !
Still searching. w/ smiles Jimmy

[nmj]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Hello, Nigel !!! Thanx so much for your comments.

It is good to know that it is not myself that is strange and weird !
Still searching. w/ smiles Jimmy

not strange or weird at all, as you know not only the people offering the french car but also the one not far from me perhaps one would think it is they who are weird and strange ? ,

ps the 288 local to me did sell for more than they offered it to me for , as i knew it would but that is not the point, i look forward to meeting you hopefully when you come over

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by nmj

not strange or weird at all, as you know not only the people offering the french car but also the one not far from me perhaps one would think it is they who are weird and strange ? ,

ps the 288 local to me did sell for more than they offered it to me for , as i knew it would but that is not the point, i look forward to meeting you hopefully when you come over

The pleasure would be all mine, Nigel ! ...that is, if you do not mind meeting one, strange creature from the far, far East. w/ smiles Jimmy

[nmj]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

The pleasure would be all mine, Nigel ! ...that is, if you do not mind meeting one, strange creature from the far, far East. w/ smiles Jimmy

my dear chap , eccentric is the word one could use and that's is more than acceptable

[550JM]

Did you see this one, Jimmy?

http://http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3643220.htm