F-50 crash

JazzyO · 12-12-2009, 08:01 AM

We recently had welcomed an F-50 into our borders, here in Holland. Unfortunately the owner has not been in a position to enjoy it for long as he crashed it this morning. The owner and his 3-year old son had to be cut from the car, the driver being unhurt but his son was hurt. Fortunately it seems he will recover, let's hope for a speedy recovery.

Article in Dutch and more pics: http://www.actueelnederland.nl/item/...d-gewond-.html

The car in better days: http://www.autogespot.com/nl/viewima...17082009125335

Onno

212Export · 12-12-2009, 09:33 AM

Thanks for sharing, Onno. I looked at the picture which shows the wooden tree almost 30% into the carbon tube on the right side where his 3 year old so^n must have been sitting...terrible. Hope the young boy will be okay most of all !! What feelings a father of a injured son must have in such a moment ?! I would not like to imagine.....

Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS · 12-12-2009, 11:52 AM

Always sad to see a situation like this. At least, it did not hit concrete poles or otherwise.
Don't know the exact situation but when things like this happens, I cannot help but wonder if the driver were capable and aware of the monstrous car he was driving. Such exotic cars demand utmost respect. Speaking for myself, I would be extra timid, to say the least, because I know my skills are total mismatch against such a car.
Let's hope for the best for the family. Jimmy

IPF · 12-12-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Always sad to see a situation like this. At least, it did not hit concrete poles or otherwise.
Don't know the exact situation but when things like this happens, I cannot help but wonder if the driver were capable and aware of the monstrous car he was driving. Such exotic cars demand utmost respect. Speaking for myself, I would be extra timid, to say the least, because I know my skills are total mismatch against such a car.
Let's hope for the best for the family. Jimmy

Apparently the story - from another Dutch source - is the driver was pulling away from a traffic light and within 80 yards of it somehow skidded and lost control of the car, reportedly not even at that high speed (yet), i.e. below 30 mph (as stated by him). Can't judge how that account would tally with damage as extensive as this.

No clue about the driver's capabilities either, but the fact is - as Onno states above - that this F50 had been in NL for only a few months now, i.e. the owner has only had it for that long. Then again, I believe he owned other Ferrari's before (though likely not that potent).

However all of that may be, it's sad to see something like this happen to that poor little boy (who just turned 3).

Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS · 12-12-2009, 01:15 PM

A three year old,...that is terrible, indeed. As for the low speed claim... , being a non-turbo, NA monster, I have no clue. However, one thing I can say is that it does take some time before one becomes acquainted and comfortable with a newly acquired car. I am sure Boxer can shed some comments (as I assume that he drives around crazy, yet with prudence(?) in his lovely F50. Jimmy

285ferrari · 12-12-2009, 01:20 PM

Best wishes for a speedy recovery....

Boxer · 12-12-2009, 01:24 PM

Very sad. Prayers for a speedy recovery.

Boxer · 12-12-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

A three year old,...that is terrible, indeed. As for the low speed claim... , being a non-turbo, NA monster, I have no clue. However, one thing I can say is that it does take some time before one becomes acquainted and comfortable with a newly acquired car. I am sure Boxer can shed some comments (as I assume that he drives around crazy, yet with prudence(?) in his lovely F50. Jimmy

Very hard to comment as I have no idea what the road conditons were when the accident happend. 1st thing that comes to find though is all F50s are 12 year old cars now and should now be on their second set of tyres as the originals will be hard as a rock. However as most F50s are very low mileage the original tyres look near perfect (mine had original tyres when I bought it and I have since had new rubber fitted). If he was still on the original tyres, grip would not have been good at all and it would be quite easy to loose control.

Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS · 12-12-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer

Very hard to comment as I have no idea what the road conditons were when the accident happend. 1st thing that comes to find though is all F50s are 12 year old cars now and should now be on their second set of tyres as the originals will be hard as a rock. However as most F50s are very low mileage the original tyres look near perfect (mine had original tyres when I bought it and I have since had new rubber fitted). If he was still on the original tyres, grip would not have been good at all and it would be quite easy to loose control.

As Boxer mentioned, tires' condition may have been the major factor, if the driver was going easy as he stated. However, I noted that he mentioned pulling away from the traffic, and if the rubber was still cold, combined with old, rock hard rubber, and cold road conditions all add up to this inevitable outcome.
Hope for speedy and complete recovery. Jimmy

Barry · 12-12-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer

Very sad. Prayers for a speedy recovery.

+1. Terrible to see this. Had both my 5 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter out today in my 360. Can't imagine how I would feel in that situation. Can't think of anything worse..... If ever there was a motivation to slow down!

AckMann · 12-12-2009, 04:34 PM

Not a fun story to read about. Damage appears to be more extensive than 30mph. I drive with my 6 year old about 80% of the time the toy see's any pavement. Would hate to see this. Confirms my feeling about doing any modifications to my car; it's fast enough, now and any more would end up in trouble. You do have me thinking about my tires though; 9 years old and only 12,000 miles but may still be time to budget for some new ones.

bst1 · 12-12-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AckMann

Not a fun story to read about. Damage appears to be more extensive than 30mph. I drive with my 6 year old about 80% of the time the toy see's any pavement. Would hate to see this. Confirms my feeling about doing any modifications to my car; it's fast enough, now and any more would end up in trouble. You do have me thinking about my tires though; 9 years old and only 12,000 miles but may still be time to budget for some new ones.

Tires should be replaced, regardless of mileage, after 4-5 years. They WILL dryrot!!!!

Boxer · 12-12-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AckMann

9 years old and only 12,000 miles but may still be time to budget for some new ones.

I would go get new rubber asap.

I almost learned my lesson the hard way with my first BB. Tyres looked perfect and dealer said they were fine. When out for the third or fourth time came to a corner with a bit of speed, turned in, BB decided it would rather not, mashed the brake, broke the rear loose, counter steered, and managed to get it around the bend. Got home and checked the dates on the tyres.....18 years old.

212Export · 12-13-2009, 02:49 AM

Old and cold rubber may be one reason. I could further imagine that the road was possibly at a near freezing temparature. If. after passing the road cross after the light, he may have strongly accelerated and the cold ground together with cold rubber let the car spin the wheels and there we go...?!

JazzyO · 12-13-2009, 03:17 AM

A friend of the family has posted on another forum that son and dad are doing well under the circumstances. Which is great to hear.

Speculating on the cause of the crash is always fraught with conjecture, but in Holland the roads are often damp this time of year and the tyres will almost certainly have been cold. You have to be careful taking these brutes out for a drive in these conditions, and you have to wonder if it's even worth it. I've driven my 550 in the rain and sub-zero temperatures and the fun is very quickly lost when you can feel the car has very limited grip and is trying to get away from you. Don't forget - Ferraris use soft rubber on the tyres that becomes very hard when it's cold. They offer much less grip than normal tyres under those circumstances.

As another example, I once drove home in my Alfa 33 Sportswagon when it had thawed and refrozen during the day. I think I had a 100m braking distance from 40 km/h. It was scary. What I mean to say is that almost everyone underestimates the influence of the weather, even in a normal car. In a hypercar, you should be extra vigilant, as the wide tyres make the car more dangerous than a normal car, even if you don't include the extra power. So beware of cold sunny days, even if there is no snow or rain: dampness and cold tyres can do the damage all on their own.

Onno

IPF · 12-13-2009, 04:29 AM

True,

These days the roads in western-NL are both structurally damp, thanks to lots and lots of rain over the last fortnight or so, and potentially slippery: the last few days mid-day temperature has fallen to around the 5° C mark, at night even down to around freezing (0° C).

However, to add to the speculative elements surrounding this and other such crashes, yet another Dutch online source now mentions that there may have been sand(y patches) on the road, potentially causing wheel spin regardless of hypothesised poor/cold tyre condition and/or wet/icy roads.

Which all goes to show that the Devil is in the detail when driving any car, but especially a super car.

davehelms · 12-14-2009, 03:44 AM

I am of the belief that todays tire compounds should be dated by the number of heat cycles they see and age, not the tread wear or a visual inspection. It seems three to four years is about it.

I checked the date codes on a 550 we had in for service recently and then did a durometer test on them, hard as a rock but looked just fine. I lowered the car onto a piece of 1" Lexan I have mounted in a stand and looked at the contact patch. Dry rot cracking is evident where the tire flex's at the patch that could not be seen when inspecting the top of the tire. Far too much potential to risk it on any of these cars.

It appears the carbon tub did what it was supposed to do...I am delighted to hear the family is on the mend. I looked closely at an F50 tub at FNA years back that was involved in a terrible incident....there are a number of folks that owe their life to the genius of that tub design!

Granucci · 12-14-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehelms

I am of the belief that todays tire compounds should be dated by the number of heat cycles they see and age, not the tread wear or a visual inspection. It seems three to four years is about it.

I checked the date codes on a 550 we had in for service recently and then did a durometer test on them, hard as a rock but looked just fine. I lowered the car onto a piece of 1" Lexan I have mounted in a stand and looked at the contact patch. Dry rot cracking is evident where the tire flex's at the patch that could not be seen when inspecting the top of the tire. Far too much potential to risk it on any of these cars.

It appears the carbon tub did what it was supposed to do...I am delighted to hear the family is on the mend. I looked closely at an F50 tub at FNA years back that was involved in a terrible incident....there are a number of folks that owe their life to the genius of that tub design!

Now that's a test: Wonder how many tire stores can/would perform this test.

ALSO: Hope for a full recovery for both son and father.

JazzyO · 12-14-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehelms

...there are a number of folks that owe their life to the genius of that tub design!

Not to mention the people in crashed Enzo's. The "Gizmodo king" that crashed that one on the PCH would not be alive today if it had been a '50ies, '60ies, '70ies, or even '80ies car....

Onno

12-12-2009, 01:20 PM	#6
285ferrari Owner Sponsor Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: East Coast Posts: 298	Best wishes for a speedy recovery.... __________________ www.stickynomore.com

12-12-2009, 01:24 PM	#7
Boxer Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 8,828	Very sad. Prayers for a speedy recovery. __________________ Boxer Veni Vidi Gubernavi

12-13-2009, 04:29 AM	#16
IPF Owner Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 279	True, These days the roads in western-NL are both structurally damp, thanks to lots and lots of rain over the last fortnight or so, and potentially slippery: the last few days mid-day temperature has fallen to around the 5° C mark, at night even down to around freezing (0° C). However, to add to the speculative elements surrounding this and other such crashes, yet another Dutch online source now mentions that there may have been sand(y patches) on the road, potentially causing wheel spin regardless of hypothesised poor/cold tyre condition and/or wet/icy roads. Which all goes to show that the Devil is in the detail when driving any car, but especially a super car. __________________ A horse is a horse, of course, of course, and no one can talk to a horse of course. That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mister F.

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12-12-2009, 09:33 AM	#2
212Export Owner Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 1,014	Thanks for sharing, Onno. I looked at the picture which shows the wooden tree almost 30% into the carbon tube on the right side where his 3 year old so^n must have been sitting...terrible. Hope the young boy will be okay most of all !! What feelings a father of a injured son must have in such a moment ?! I would not like to imagine.....

12-12-2009, 11:52 AM	#3
Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS Owner Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Name: Jimmy Chen Shiba Location: Yokohama & Tokyo, Japan Posts: 1,950	Always sad to see a situation like this. At least, it did not hit concrete poles or otherwise. Don't know the exact situation but when things like this happens, I cannot help but wonder if the driver were capable and aware of the monstrous car he was driving. Such exotic cars demand utmost respect. Speaking for myself, I would be extra timid, to say the least, because I know my skills are total mismatch against such a car. Let's hope for the best for the family. Jimmy

12-12-2009, 01:15 PM	#5
Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS Owner Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Name: Jimmy Chen Shiba Location: Yokohama & Tokyo, Japan Posts: 1,950	A three year old,...that is terrible, indeed. As for the low speed claim... , being a non-turbo, NA monster, I have no clue. However, one thing I can say is that it does take some time before one becomes acquainted and comfortable with a newly acquired car. I am sure Boxer can shed some comments (as I assume that he drives around crazy, yet with prudence(?) in his lovely F50. Jimmy

12-12-2009, 04:34 PM	#11
AckMann Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Salem Oregon Posts: 137	Not a fun story to read about. Damage appears to be more extensive than 30mph. I drive with my 6 year old about 80% of the time the toy see's any pavement. Would hate to see this. Confirms my feeling about doing any modifications to my car; it's fast enough, now and any more would end up in trouble. You do have me thinking about my tires though; 9 years old and only 12,000 miles but may still be time to budget for some new ones.

12-13-2009, 02:49 AM	#14
212Export Owner Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 1,014	Old and cold rubber may be one reason. I could further imagine that the road was possibly at a near freezing temparature. If. after passing the road cross after the light, he may have strongly accelerated and the cold ground together with cold rubber let the car spin the wheels and there we go...?!

12-13-2009, 03:17 AM	#15
JazzyO Owner Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mali + Holland Posts: 2,447	A friend of the family has posted on another forum that son and dad are doing well under the circumstances. Which is great to hear. Speculating on the cause of the crash is always fraught with conjecture, but in Holland the roads are often damp this time of year and the tyres will almost certainly have been cold. You have to be careful taking these brutes out for a drive in these conditions, and you have to wonder if it's even worth it. I've driven my 550 in the rain and sub-zero temperatures and the fun is very quickly lost when you can feel the car has very limited grip and is trying to get away from you. Don't forget - Ferraris use soft rubber on the tyres that becomes very hard when it's cold. They offer much less grip than normal tyres under those circumstances. As another example, I once drove home in my Alfa 33 Sportswagon when it had thawed and refrozen during the day. I think I had a 100m braking distance from 40 km/h. It was scary. What I mean to say is that almost everyone underestimates the influence of the weather, even in a normal car. In a hypercar, you should be extra vigilant, as the wide tyres make the car more dangerous than a normal car, even if you don't include the extra power. So beware of cold sunny days, even if there is no snow or rain: dampness and cold tyres can do the damage all on their own. Onno

12-14-2009, 03:44 AM	#17
davehelms Owner Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Boulder Colorado Posts: 101	I am of the belief that todays tire compounds should be dated by the number of heat cycles they see and age, not the tread wear or a visual inspection. It seems three to four years is about it. I checked the date codes on a 550 we had in for service recently and then did a durometer test on them, hard as a rock but looked just fine. I lowered the car onto a piece of 1" Lexan I have mounted in a stand and looked at the contact patch. Dry rot cracking is evident where the tire flex's at the patch that could not be seen when inspecting the top of the tire. Far too much potential to risk it on any of these cars. It appears the carbon tub did what it was supposed to do...I am delighted to hear the family is on the mend. I looked closely at an F50 tub at FNA years back that was involved in a terrible incident....there are a number of folks that owe their life to the genius of that tub design!