308 Engine Rebuild_EFI, Pistons, Cams, etc.

bretm · 12-04-2011, 01:29 PM

I think this is too big of a job to take on before I either have a bigger garage or it is warmer outside again. So, for now I'll just clean up contacts, etc. where necessary. If I keep the car, this is my plan (it's easy for me to reference back in the thread, hence my writing it out now):

- Move the relay board down behind the passenger foot panel. There's plenty of room down there and it is safe and dry. There's just too much stuff packed in behind the 308's dash. I've opened up a lot by removing the A/C, but it's still just a spaghetti bowl which is conducive to over-heating everything and it also forces a situation where certain wires are pulled too tightly. Use these connectors, per Mark's awesome find.
42238-2 TE Connectivity / AMP Terminals
These are the butt connectors that I'd use to extend the wires.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20CONNECTORS/

- The stock fuses blocks are approx. 4.7" long with 4.4" between screw holes, so I'll use two ATC style blocks. One 8 fuse, one 10 fuse. These from Waytek would work well with clear plastic covers. There's actually a fair amount of room behind the dash for the fuses - at least an inch between the dashboard cover and the current fuse blocks (without their covers on them).
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...0FUSE%20BLOCK/
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20ATC%20FUSE/

- Use these terminal splitters as some fuses are doubled up.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...NGLE%20FEMALE/

- I'm not sure which connectors to use yet. Probably something generic like these and then I'll put my own insulation over them (most likely 4:1 adhesive polyolefin).
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...50%20X%20.032/

Pizzaman · 12-04-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretm

I think this is too big of a job to take on before I either have a bigger garage or it is warmer outside again. So, for now I'll just clean up contacts, etc. where necessary. If I keep the car, this is my plan (it's easy for me to reference back in the thread, hence my writing it out now):

- Move the relay board down behind the passenger foot panel. There's plenty of room down there and it is safe and dry. There's just too much stuff packed in behind the 308's dash. I've opened up a lot by removing the A/C, but it's still just a spaghetti bowl which is conducive to over-heating everything and it also forces a situation where certain wires are pulled too tightly. Use these connectors, per Mark's awesome find.
42238-2 TE Connectivity / AMP Terminals
These are the butt connectors that I'd use to extend the wires.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20CONNECTORS/

- The stock fuses blocks are approx. 4.7" long with 4.4" between screw holes, so I'll use two ATC style blocks. One 8 fuse, one 10 fuse. These from Waytek would work well with clear plastic covers. There's actually a fair amount of room behind the dash for the fuses - at least an inch between the dashboard cover and the current fuse blocks (without their covers on them).
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...0FUSE%20BLOCK/
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20ATC%20FUSE/

- Use these terminal splitters as some fuses are doubled up.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...NGLE%20FEMALE/

- I'm not sure which connectors to use yet. Probably something generic like these and then I'll put my own insulation over them (most likely 4:1 adhesive polyolefin).
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...50%20X%20.032/

So the blocks are only like $5 bucks and a then a couple of bucks for the covers and connector's? That's pretty cheap. And it uses the modern fuses too? Nice.

bretm · 12-04-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

So the blocks are only like $5 bucks and a then a couple of bucks for the covers and connector's? That's pretty cheap. And it uses the modern fuses too? Nice.

Exactly.

Birdman's setup is no doubt the best from a cost/benefit perspective (when including your own time), and a huge improvement over the stock fuse blocks. If you're willing to put in a little time though billing yourself at $0 per hour, it can be done cheaper and better with modern ATC style.

To be honest, updating the connectors is probably overkill. Most of them on my car are actually in pretty good shape - just a few are rough.

bretm · 12-07-2011, 04:02 PM

Called Electromotive three times today... no answer. Left a message... no call back yet.

Looks doubtful that the ECU will make it back before the weekend.

bretm · 12-09-2011, 06:24 AM

Electromotive hadn't returned my call from Wednesday, so I called this morning... and of course they didn't pick up the phone. Instead of leaving another message, I emailed this time. Apparently customer service isn't one of their strengths.

This is of course crushing the Dec 15th deadline. I gave myself 8 weeks to get the car running, and 2 of those are being burned up by the ECU being out of town. That's not the end of the world by any means, but it would be nice if they would pick up the phone so I could at least plan my next few weekends as we approach the holiday season. Of course, I had planned on re-installing the ECU this weekend. Next weekend the car has to go back into the garage, either under it's own power or not, as we'll be away for some of the Christmas break and I dont' want to leave the car outside. I also need the concrete pad to do some work on my daily driver before winter.

Looks like my next car is going to be running with Mark's ECU...

cribbj · 12-09-2011, 07:08 AM

Bret I didn't want to disagree with you earlier when you were bragging on them (Electromotive), but the response you're getting now pretty much mirrors what the GT40 mob get.

If it's any consolation, all stateside ECU manufacturers seem to have the same lousy attitude toward end user service. I think you have to go to Oz or the Kiwi's to get decent support for an ECU. (Link, MoTeC, etc.)

bretm · 12-09-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cribbj

Bret I didn't want to disagree with you earlier when you were bragging on them (Electromotive), but the response you're getting now pretty much mirrors what the GT40 mob get.

If it's any consolation, all stateside ECU manufacturers seem to have the same lousy attitude toward end user service. I think you have to go to Oz or the Kiwi's to get decent support for an ECU. (Link, MoTeC, etc.)

Yeah, I suppose that I spoke too soon. Even when I got them on the phone a week and a half ago, it took three tries. They were very nice though at that point. I suppose it's too early to write them off, but it sure would be nice if my ECU wasn't in the great unknown right now... I didn't get a call or email back today.

We'll see...

Pizzaman · 12-09-2011, 04:13 PM

I wonder if mine needs to be sent in to be updated?

mk e · 12-09-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

I wonder if mine needs to be sent in to be updated?

No. Your's needs to be put in the car

mk e · 12-09-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretm

Looks like my next car is going to be running with Mark's ECU...

Because firmware updates don't require it to be sent anywhere, just download top the PC then download to the ECU........theoretically anyway

bretm · 12-10-2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

I wonder if mine needs to be sent in to be updated?

Nah, yours is good to go. My ECU is a very early Tec3 and not a Tec3r like yours, so it can't run the Wintec4 software. The main difference, from what I understand, is that they upgraded the computer chip inside the ECU itself. So, for a few hundred bucks if you send in an old ECU like mine they physically change the circuit boards and update it to basically be a Tec3r like yours. They also do the firmware upgrade so it can run the Wintec4 software (which everyone that I've spoken to at the dealers, etc. says is worth its weight in gold compared to the old Wintec3 system).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk e

No. Your's needs to be put in the car

Lol. I think he's waiting until I'm done with my car so that he can lure me up to NH to help him out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk e

Because firmware updates don't require it to be sent anywhere, just download top the PC then download to the ECU........theoretically anyway

There's a process that they have in place to download firmware updates off of their website and then from the laptop to the ECU - they detail it out in the guide because apparently it fires the coils and turns on the fuel pump when the update is taking place. I get the impression that they don't upgrade the firmware very often though, as I haven't seen anything on their website in the past two years. This is, of course like you said, all theoretical though based on my experience these past two weeks.

Pizzaman · 12-10-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretm

Lol. I think he's waiting until I'm done with my car so that he can lure me up to NH to help him out.

That was the plan.

All i need is a couple of days. Have you the Mrs and your tools come up for the weekend. I got plenty of room. And if we get it started sooner, then we can go skiing afterward.

bretm · 12-11-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

That was the plan.

All i need is a couple of days. Have you the Mrs and your tools come up for the weekend. I got plenty of room. And if we get it started sooner, then we can go skiing afterward.

I think I've burned up just about all of my allowed 308 time with the Mrs... If I were to make her come up and work on another car I'm pretty sure I would get cold dinner for the rest of the month...

bretm · 12-11-2011, 12:08 PM

Since I'm not sure when my ECU will make it back, I decided to bring the 308 inside this weekend. It's starting to get pretty cold around here - 30d F or so at night - which was a large impetus for the Dec 15 deadline. We'll be away for some of the next few weekends, so now at least I wont have to worry about snow loads on the canopy, etc.

Allison took down the canopy while I installed the wheels and steering wheel, and got the car off of the jackstands. We could only inch it back and forth so far, so we had to use the jack to swing the rear end around before being able to back the car off the pad.

I had planned on using a set of ramps and/or the electric winch again. Since the car is all wired up though, instead I connected the battery and used the starter motor to move the car up the driveway. I was a little hesistant at first, but it barely strained it at all. I used the clutch so that it wasn't such a shock when it engaged. Went ten feet and took a rest, etc. It worked perfectly (and I'm still getting good oil pressure as well).

bretm · 12-13-2011, 06:04 PM

Spoke to Electromotive today. Well, first I called the service line... no answer. Then I called the tech line... no answer. Finally I decided to just call the sales line. A gentleman picked up right away. Phew. He was super-nice and put me on hold while he personally walked back to the tech area to find out what the story was. I spoke to the head tech guy at this point, who was also nice as can be and apologetic for not calling back already. Apparently most of the guys were out of the office last week for an automotive aftermarket convention.

My ECU is going to need a bit more in the way of updating than he initially thought when we spoke two weeks ago (and what the dealer that I buy parts from thought when he and I spoke about it months ago). The main changes have to do with some of the parts in the ECU being able to accomodate a windows 7 or later computer that is running a USB port instead of a serial port. A few hundred bucks wont break the bank at this point, so hopefully they took care of it today and can get it in the mail tomorrow. We'll see.

a1exander · 12-13-2011, 06:42 PM

Brilliant!
So hopefully we shall have it started in a couple of days?

bretm · 12-14-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1exander

Brilliant!
So hopefully we shall have it started in a couple of days?

That's what I was hoping, but of course I didn't hear from Electromotive today. Ahhh, this never gets old...

Tomorrow I'm running around the city all day, so even if they call I most likely wont be able to get back to them until either the afternoon or Friday. Next weekend the Mrs and I will be away - I certainly owe her as evidenced in this thread. So, looks like I'm out of luck.

December 15th...

mk e · 12-14-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretm

That's what I was hoping, but of course I didn't hear from Electromotive today. Ahhh, this never gets old...

Tomorrow I'm running around the city all day,.......

Tomorrow is December 15th.

Well it's not fair that you picked a day you wouldn't even be home is it?

So tomorrow morning I'll fedEx you the motec (which NEVER needs to be send back to the factory BTW) I have on the self for you to use until electromotive decides to honor you with the return or your ecu so you can have it running on the 16th when you are home.

bretm · 12-14-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk e

Well it's not fair that you picked a day you wouldn't even be home is it?

So tomorrow morning I'll fedEx you the motec (which NEVER needs to be send back to the factory BTW) I have on the self for you to use until electromotive decides to honor you with the return or your ecu so you can have it running on the 16th when you are home.

Lol. Thanks, man. I needed to be cheered up as I was a bit bummed this evening about the 308.

Pizzaman · 12-14-2011, 07:20 PM

Oh man, it's the 15th already?? I got payroll tax to pay. argh!!

12-09-2011, 07:08 AM	#966
cribbj Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Houston Ferrari Life Posts: 1,131 Name: John	Bret I didn't want to disagree with you earlier when you were bragging on them (Electromotive), but the response you're getting now pretty much mirrors what the GT40 mob get. If it's any consolation, all stateside ECU manufacturers seem to have the same lousy attitude toward end user service. I think you have to go to Oz or the Kiwi's to get decent support for an ECU. (Link, MoTeC, etc.) '99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084 High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars. Maranello Skunkworks Team Member

12-11-2011, 12:08 PM	#974
bretm Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Ferrari Life Posts: 1,715 Name: Bret	Since I'm not sure when my ECU will make it back, I decided to bring the 308 inside this weekend. It's starting to get pretty cold around here - 30d F or so at night - which was a large impetus for the Dec 15 deadline. We'll be away for some of the next few weekends, so now at least I wont have to worry about snow loads on the canopy, etc. Allison took down the canopy while I installed the wheels and steering wheel, and got the car off of the jackstands. We could only inch it back and forth so far, so we had to use the jack to swing the rear end around before being able to back the car off the pad. I had planned on using a set of ramps and/or the electric winch again. Since the car is all wired up though, instead I connected the battery and used the starter motor to move the car up the driveway. I was a little hesistant at first, but it barely strained it at all. I used the clutch so that it wasn't such a shock when it engaged. Went ten feet and took a rest, etc. It worked perfectly (and I'm still getting good oil pressure as well). Attached Images

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12-04-2011, 01:29 PM	#961
bretm Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Ferrari Life Posts: 1,715 Name: Bret	I think this is too big of a job to take on before I either have a bigger garage or it is warmer outside again. So, for now I'll just clean up contacts, etc. where necessary. If I keep the car, this is my plan (it's easy for me to reference back in the thread, hence my writing it out now): - Move the relay board down behind the passenger foot panel. There's plenty of room down there and it is safe and dry. There's just too much stuff packed in behind the 308's dash. I've opened up a lot by removing the A/C, but it's still just a spaghetti bowl which is conducive to over-heating everything and it also forces a situation where certain wires are pulled too tightly. Use these connectors, per Mark's awesome find. 42238-2 TE Connectivity / AMP Terminals These are the butt connectors that I'd use to extend the wires. http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20CONNECTORS/ - The stock fuses blocks are approx. 4.7" long with 4.4" between screw holes, so I'll use two ATC style blocks. One 8 fuse, one 10 fuse. These from Waytek would work well with clear plastic covers. There's actually a fair amount of room behind the dash for the fuses - at least an inch between the dashboard cover and the current fuse blocks (without their covers on them). http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...0FUSE%20BLOCK/ http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20ATC%20FUSE/ - Use these terminal splitters as some fuses are doubled up. http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...NGLE%20FEMALE/ - I'm not sure which connectors to use yet. Probably something generic like these and then I'll put my own insulation over them (most likely 4:1 adhesive polyolefin). http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...50%20X%20.032/

12-07-2011, 04:02 PM	#964
bretm Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Ferrari Life Posts: 1,715 Name: Bret	Called Electromotive three times today... no answer. Left a message... no call back yet. Looks doubtful that the ECU will make it back before the weekend.

12-09-2011, 06:24 AM	#965
bretm Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Ferrari Life Posts: 1,715 Name: Bret	Electromotive hadn't returned my call from Wednesday, so I called this morning... and of course they didn't pick up the phone. Instead of leaving another message, I emailed this time. Apparently customer service isn't one of their strengths. This is of course crushing the Dec 15th deadline. I gave myself 8 weeks to get the car running, and 2 of those are being burned up by the ECU being out of town. That's not the end of the world by any means, but it would be nice if they would pick up the phone so I could at least plan my next few weekends as we approach the holiday season. Of course, I had planned on re-installing the ECU this weekend. Next weekend the car has to go back into the garage, either under it's own power or not, as we'll be away for some of the Christmas break and I dont' want to leave the car outside. I also need the concrete pad to do some work on my daily driver before winter. Looks like my next car is going to be running with Mark's ECU...

12-09-2011, 04:13 PM	#968
Pizzaman Owner Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NH Ferrari Life Posts: 1,253 Name: Chris	I wonder if mine needs to be sent in to be updated?

12-13-2011, 06:04 PM	#975
bretm Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Ferrari Life Posts: 1,715 Name: Bret	Spoke to Electromotive today. Well, first I called the service line... no answer. Then I called the tech line... no answer. Finally I decided to just call the sales line. A gentleman picked up right away. Phew. He was super-nice and put me on hold while he personally walked back to the tech area to find out what the story was. I spoke to the head tech guy at this point, who was also nice as can be and apologetic for not calling back already. Apparently most of the guys were out of the office last week for an automotive aftermarket convention. My ECU is going to need a bit more in the way of updating than he initially thought when we spoke two weeks ago (and what the dealer that I buy parts from thought when he and I spoke about it months ago). The main changes have to do with some of the parts in the ECU being able to accomodate a windows 7 or later computer that is running a USB port instead of a serial port. A few hundred bucks wont break the bank at this point, so hopefully they took care of it today and can get it in the mail tomorrow. We'll see.

12-13-2011, 06:42 PM	#976
a1exander Owner Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Johannesburg RSA Ferrari Life Posts: 1,032 Name: Peter	Brilliant! So hopefully we shall have it started in a couple of days?

12-14-2011, 07:20 PM	#980
Pizzaman Owner Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NH Ferrari Life Posts: 1,253 Name: Chris	Oh man, it's the 15th already?? I got payroll tax to pay. argh!!