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308 Broken timing belt?


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Old 03-24-2012, 06:40 AM   #1
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Default Broken timing belt?

In all the years I've owned V8 Ferrari's (28 years) I've heard the same old thing about timing belts, change them every 30k miles or 3-5 years, but I have never known a person to tell me they had one break. I am asking for people to chime in on the facts. Have you ever broken a timing belt or known someone who broke one?
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:59 AM   #2
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No i have not. the timing belts on my 328 are almost 10yrs old and over 15k miles.


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Old 03-24-2012, 07:22 AM   #3
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Interesting, let's see how many others have a similar situation. I would like to hear from someone who has broken a belt and how old and how many miles are on their car when it happened. Belt change "fact or fiction"?
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:45 AM   #4
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i think this has been done many times on the other site with few if any takers. Mechanics would be the ones that know. I think the more common thing is for them to lose teeth and skip.


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Old 03-24-2012, 07:52 AM   #5
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I had a belt skip on me on a 456 GT. It was only two years old.

I know of one that broke on a F355 in Germany. Likely cause was stones getting kicked up into the engine bay. The mechanic had not replaced the cover when the belt was changed.


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Old 03-24-2012, 08:08 AM   #6
 
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No i have not. the timing belts on my 328 are almost 10yrs old and over 15k miles.
are you serious? and you're not worried it might snap?
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:13 AM   #7
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I remember from the other side also showing hey chip belt causing problems . I also remember daniel at Rtcambi showing bent valves from of catastrophic failure .

ferrari is now saying 5 years on belts. I prefer not to take a chance so I change them periodically.


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Old 03-24-2012, 08:22 AM   #8
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Rik- Ferrari does not say 5 years on V8s, only on 575Ms and 612s. Recommended interval is 3 years or 30,000 miles for V8s and 12 cylinders built before the 575M.

This has been rehashed numerous times and it comes down to two things. First, Ferrari recommends 3 years or 30,000 miles for V8 cambelt changes. Second, it is your car and you can change or not change the cambelts whenever you want. Nobody else except you cares. That goes for any other maintenance on the car, too. It only matters if you try to sell the car.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:26 AM   #9
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No i have not. the timing belts on my 328 are almost 10yrs old and over 15k miles.
wow, Wetpet, that sounds scary, don't you get worried when you drive ?
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:34 AM   #10
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Someone on the other list had a belt failure. When they posted their photos, the broken part of the belt had a very distinct circular slice through 3/4 of the belt. Looked like either a washer or coin had managed to get into the works. After working on the engine, the culprit was found:

Timing Belt Failure After Only 150mi!! WTF!?!? - Page 6 - FerrariChat.com

The interesting part of the image was that the remaining portion of the belt *DIDN'T* break, the belt was still a continuous loop. However, with the remaining belt only 1/4" wide, the teeth on the drive gears quickly sheared off the belt's teeth and the valve train stalled...with the expected results.

So...yes, the belt "broke" but I don't think it was age or mileage related.

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Old 03-24-2012, 08:46 AM   #11
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What is recommended and what they are really good for are two different things. I would like hear from someone who has broken or had a belt fail on a 308. I lean that there is a over exaggeration on the life expectancy. I installed a JDM WRX Subaru motor in my vanagon, when I did I changed the timing belt and tensioner bearings, it's remarkably like the Ferrari belts and tensioner, the recommended service on that belt was 60k miles I believe and know there are many subie cars with well over that with the same belt. Good responses guys lets see what comes of this.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:30 AM   #12
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Right, and that Subie engine regularly turns 7500 rpm, I bet. This has been beat to death in this and the other forum. You are not gong to reinvent the wheel on this subject.

How often do you change your oil and filter? Can anyone show me a Ferrari engine that has blown up because the oil and filter were not changed every year? Same thing. One year is not a magic number, just like three years is not a magic number. The only entity with statistically significant data on Ferrari V8 belt failures is Ferrari, and they recommend three years for cambelt changes. And no, they did not do that to generate more maintenance work for their dealers. Otherwise they would not have replaced the 360's belts with chains on the F430.


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Old 03-24-2012, 09:49 AM   #13
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Taz, I guess I'm stirring the pot but really I would like to hear from someone who has had one break or fail due to age or high mileage. To me the belts are not as big an issue as the water pump, I believe water pump failure is one of the major causes of 308 engine failures, leaking causing over heating and then ring failure.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:12 AM   #14
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Given the strength of these belts, barring other foreign objects or acts of god, it is UNLIKELY that they will break for most drivers. While granted the F-car motor turns upward of 8800 RPM, the lowly Acura NSX will go 6 years/70,000 miles on a similar timing belt at up to 8000 RPM with similarly spirited driving. Ferrari is basing their numbers on the assumption that the car will be pushed hard all the time, as such their conservative numbers make a lot of sense. That extra 800 rpm does not come easily or cheaply, but if you are not regularly pushing your car hard then the entire system is likely to benefit from the mechanical empathy it receives. As others have stated, make your own decision, but push your car hard and don't pay attention to the schedule and it may cost you more than you think.

I think the belt is far less likely to go south than other components that are part of the 30,000 mile major service and since you're changing those things it makes sense to change the belts as well. That was the logic Ferrari used. We're already doing cam seals, tensioner bearings, etc... it does not make much sense NOT to do the belts!

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Old 03-24-2012, 10:39 AM   #15
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Mark- The other thing Ferrari has in their database that we do not is the affect of the cars not being driven very often and the belts taking an irregular shape or set. This affects life.

P- If you want to hear about failures, talk to some of the high volume shop managers that are on this site like Brian Crall. They are the only ones with enough experience to have some real numbers. Belt changes are insurance, and everybody differs in how much they carry.

Now, just so you do not think I am a totally by the book guy, I have been recommending (recommendation not worth anything, practically) that 456 and 550 owners go to 5 years or 30,000 miles for cambelts because they now use all the same parts in the cam drive (some early brackets need upgrading) system as the 575 and 612. But we have real data to back that up.

A 550 owner did have his old style belt break at 29K miles and about 6 years. That one is fully documented, but the belts are different from the 308/328.

The main reason for me jumping in is that there are newbies here, and they should hear both sides of the story. This includes having access to the real recommendations, since there are many misconceptions out there on factory belt change recommendations.


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Old 03-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #16
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Too stupid a topic to reply to. It always comes down to the same thing. People who can afford the car but are too cheap to maintain it.

Last edited by Brian; 03-24-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:49 AM   #17
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Brian- Where have I heard that tune before?


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Old 03-24-2012, 10:54 AM   #18
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Guys, I am not advocating not to change your belts, it would be not smart to do so if your doing other things as Mark points out. All I am asking is have you had a timing belt break due to age or mileage.

Brain if you think so why did you even post?
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P2164 View Post
Guys, I am not advocating not to change your belts, it would be not smart to do so if your doing other things as Mark points out. All I am asking is have you had a timing belt break due to age or mileage.

Brain if you think so why did you even post?


Ammusement maybe.

You can ask all the owners you want to and get the experience of a single car. If you go to the trouble of asking people in the business you will get a little more usable data but then professional opinions are always ignored.


The logic is unassailable. It is the manufacturer who makes the service recomendations to assure satisfactory use of their product. It is in their interest to keep you happy to buy another car. It is against their interest to drive the expense of ownership up. The only person who's interest that helps is people like me who fix them, not Ferrari who sells them. And in reality it is not really in my interest either because I make a lot more money fixing broken motors that I do keeping them from breaking.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #20
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Words of wisdom . I like it, Mark


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