308 308 GT4/GTS fuel tank compatibility and pricing

JayG · 11-20-2011, 06:38 AM

I'm putting a fuel cell in the GT4 for racing and I have spare gas tanks that I'd like to get rid of. My question is the tanks for a gt4 will work in a gts, gtb, etc? Secondly, for both tanks what would be a good price roughly to ask for them?

Thanks guys

JayG · 11-20-2011, 12:23 PM

Maybe you guys can tell from the pics if these would fit in a gts, and other models. I assume they are all more or less the same.

Thanks

Jay

Boxer · 11-20-2011, 12:42 PM

I would hold onto them in case you ever decide to return the car to road spec or sell it.

JayG · 11-20-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer

I would hold onto them in case you ever decide to return the car to road spec or sell it.

Good advice Boxer but I have another set of these as well.

stevel48 · 03-27-2012, 10:58 AM

Jay,
I saw your post about the tanks for sale. There is a discussion over on Fchat re: the affects of ethanol on aluminum tanks. It seems that if there is separation then the water can casue corrosion. That leaves a lot of us hung out to dry since ethanol is everywhere in fuels today. We're lookign into solutions but are interested in seeing real tanks and signs of corrosion. Are you able to look in your tanks for signs of corrosion?

Thanks,
Steve

JayG · 03-27-2012, 11:28 AM

Hey Steve, I sold those tanks a few months ago but when I checked there was no ethanol problems with them. My buddies Ducati monster with a plastic tank expanded and had countless fuel lines degrade from it but the aluminum seems to hold up pretty well from what Ive seen.

Fave · 03-27-2012, 05:35 PM

I was the one who bought them, there were some pin holes in the bottom of the drivers side tank... though I wasn't surprised, most of these tanks get this but most likely not from ethanol but from where they sit on the pads over time. It's thin aluminum. Tank tested them and welded up, no big deal.

Anyone want to buy the passenger side tank pictured above?

Also have my old drivers side tank which has a broken baffle rattling around inside. I need fix that somehow.

penpp · 04-08-2012, 10:15 PM

Jay - Seems like a lot of weight in the back end for a mid-engined car. I know that all the IMSA-prepped 308GTB's always had them in the front (like most mid-engined cars), but on those GTB's, the whole area was customized. Check this out as an example: 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB Serial Number 20969*-*Front chassis detail & fuel cell from right. The GT4 factory LeMans car seems to have used the stock locations - or maybe even the rear seat area - the cars have fuel tank fillers on both sides of the car. I also saw a photo of an other GT4 race car that had a fuel cell in the stock location - but looked like only on the one side (there were no photos of the other side of the engine bay, I don't know if there were two cells). I was thinking of doing the passenger side tank thinking that the weight would balance out with me in the driver's seat. My only worry is that once you fit a bladder inside the one stock tank, there wouldn't be much capacity - but maybe enough for a 30 minute sprint race.

mk e · 04-09-2012, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penpp

I was thinking of doing the passenger side tank thinking that the weight would balance out with me in the driver's seat. My only worry is that once you fit a bladder inside the one stock tank, there wouldn't be much capacity - but maybe enough for a 30 minute sprint race.

It never even occurred to me that you could do that to a stock tank....doesn't it need to be certified in anyway for race use?

JayG · 04-09-2012, 02:17 PM

Pen,

I like the way the GTB did it up front and that cell is HUGE. I'm doing just a 10 gallon and I was pretty set on doing it at the tail and having the electric fuel pump mounted beside it. It seemed safer to me there if the whole trunk was covered in aluminum. I may look into ditching the spare tire well and seeing what I can put up there before I use the stock location again.

penpp · 04-09-2012, 09:32 PM

The bladder in that IMSA car is crazy - 20 gallons or so? (and that car has a totally non-stock chassis, so all that frame tubing in the front is custom.)

Each of the three main fuel cell companies will make a custom bladder, so you can send them a stock tank and they'll make a bladder to fit inside. The best way to do this for the GT4 could be to cut the top off the tank and then just fabricate a new aluminum piece to replace the top with - and that's what the filler would bolt onto. That might not be the best explanation, but I'll add an attachment of a GT4 cell using the stock location with a filler on top inside the engine bay. Definitely not the best place for a fuel filler - you could not fill up when the engine is hot, but a simple solution. (more complicated would be to add a remote filler neck).

My car will be a vintage race car and the clubs I run with generally require an SCCA-legal fuel cell which is usually a flexible bladder inside an aluminum or steel can. There are cheap cells (like Jaz) that are just plastic cells, but those aren't SCCA legal.

I had a custom bladder made by a Los Angeles-area company (where I live) called Aero Tec Services (in Santa Fe Springs) for a sports racer. The cell was designed to fit inside the steel monocoque chassis. I made a dummy tank out of cardboard - gave that to them and they copied it exactly (it was a complex shape - had different levels). The other two main fuel cell companies are Aero Tec Laboratories (ATL) and Fuel Safe - any of them will do custom bladders. I bought the filler top part from ATL. It was a a few years ago and cost about $1000 (the bladder that is, not the filler!).

Of course the downside to using one of the GT4 saddle tanks, is that - once you add a bladder inside, the capacity would be pretty low. You could always put bladders in both tanks, but that would cost... twice as much.

Or chop all the fiberglass out of the front spare tire area and pout something in there....

Decisions, decisions! (but I gotta say, I would worry about putting that much weight behind the rear wheels of a mid-engined car).

JayG · 04-10-2012, 07:55 AM

Hey thanks for the picture explanation. Based on what you're saying , maybe I should look into deleting the spare tire well, and putting the cell up there. I had no issues with air to water intercooler tanks the rear of other mid engine cars, but I saved a TON of weight with the radiator coming out so I may need some weight up there to balance it. Probably break even with a 10 gallon cell.

penpp · 04-20-2012, 01:38 AM

Wow that is great radiator! Is that an off-the shelf model or custom. I have Griffon on another project that I haven't started yet - maybe that will work.

penpp · 04-20-2012, 01:42 AM

Reply to MK E

If you have the job done by one of the three known cell companies - and the tech director at your club likes what he sees (because it's not just the bladder, it's also the filler neck and the fuel lines, then you'll get an "OK" - I had no problem when I did a custom tank.

JayG · 04-20-2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penpp

Wow that is great radiator! Is that an off-the shelf model or custom. I have Griffon on another project that I haven't started yet - maybe that will work.

Griffin Thermal Products 1-25221-X - Griffin Aluminum Pro Series Radiators - Overview - SummitRacing.com

This is the one. I have never felt a heavier radiator in any car than the 308. I think this radiator and a full fuel cell may just equal stock weight

11-20-2011, 06:38 AM	#1
JayG Owner Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Acworth, Ga, U.S.A. Ferrari Life Posts: 328	308 GT4/GTS fuel tank compatibility and pricing I'm putting a fuel cell in the GT4 for racing and I have spare gas tanks that I'd like to get rid of. My question is the tanks for a gt4 will work in a gts, gtb, etc? Secondly, for both tanks what would be a good price roughly to ask for them? Thanks guys

11-20-2011, 12:23 PM	#2
JayG Owner Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Acworth, Ga, U.S.A. Ferrari Life Posts: 328	Maybe you guys can tell from the pics if these would fit in a gts, and other models. I assume they are all more or less the same. Thanks Jay Attached Images

11-20-2011, 12:42 PM	#3
Boxer Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Ferrari Life Posts: 12,793	I would hold onto them in case you ever decide to return the car to road spec or sell it. Boxer Current: F40, F50, 612, 430 Scuderia Past: 360 Modena, 360 Challenge, 550, 575, 365BB, 512BB, 456 GT, F355 GTS, 365 GTB/4 Daytona, 308 GTB

04-09-2012, 09:32 PM	#11
penpp Join Date: Aug 2006 Ferrari Life Posts: 4	The bladder in that IMSA car is crazy - 20 gallons or so? (and that car has a totally non-stock chassis, so all that frame tubing in the front is custom.) Each of the three main fuel cell companies will make a custom bladder, so you can send them a stock tank and they'll make a bladder to fit inside. The best way to do this for the GT4 could be to cut the top off the tank and then just fabricate a new aluminum piece to replace the top with - and that's what the filler would bolt onto. That might not be the best explanation, but I'll add an attachment of a GT4 cell using the stock location with a filler on top inside the engine bay. Definitely not the best place for a fuel filler - you could not fill up when the engine is hot, but a simple solution. (more complicated would be to add a remote filler neck). My car will be a vintage race car and the clubs I run with generally require an SCCA-legal fuel cell which is usually a flexible bladder inside an aluminum or steel can. There are cheap cells (like Jaz) that are just plastic cells, but those aren't SCCA legal. I had a custom bladder made by a Los Angeles-area company (where I live) called Aero Tec Services (in Santa Fe Springs) for a sports racer. The cell was designed to fit inside the steel monocoque chassis. I made a dummy tank out of cardboard - gave that to them and they copied it exactly (it was a complex shape - had different levels). The other two main fuel cell companies are Aero Tec Laboratories (ATL) and Fuel Safe - any of them will do custom bladders. I bought the filler top part from ATL. It was a a few years ago and cost about $1000 (the bladder that is, not the filler!). Of course the downside to using one of the GT4 saddle tanks, is that - once you add a bladder inside, the capacity would be pretty low. You could always put bladders in both tanks, but that would cost... twice as much. Or chop all the fiberglass out of the front spare tire area and pout something in there.... Decisions, decisions! (but I gotta say, I would worry about putting that much weight behind the rear wheels of a mid-engined car). Attached Images

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03-27-2012, 10:58 AM	#5
stevel48 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MA Ferrari Life Posts: 1 Name: Steve	Jay, I saw your post about the tanks for sale. There is a discussion over on Fchat re: the affects of ethanol on aluminum tanks. It seems that if there is separation then the water can casue corrosion. That leaves a lot of us hung out to dry since ethanol is everywhere in fuels today. We're lookign into solutions but are interested in seeing real tanks and signs of corrosion. Are you able to look in your tanks for signs of corrosion? Thanks, Steve

03-27-2012, 11:28 AM	#6
JayG Owner Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Acworth, Ga, U.S.A. Ferrari Life Posts: 328	Hey Steve, I sold those tanks a few months ago but when I checked there was no ethanol problems with them. My buddies Ducati monster with a plastic tank expanded and had countless fuel lines degrade from it but the aluminum seems to hold up pretty well from what Ive seen.

03-27-2012, 05:35 PM	#7
Fave Owner Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Toronto Canada Ferrari Life Posts: 19	I was the one who bought them, there were some pin holes in the bottom of the drivers side tank... though I wasn't surprised, most of these tanks get this but most likely not from ethanol but from where they sit on the pads over time. It's thin aluminum. Tank tested them and welded up, no big deal. Anyone want to buy the passenger side tank pictured above? Also have my old drivers side tank which has a broken baffle rattling around inside. I need fix that somehow.

04-08-2012, 10:15 PM	#8
penpp Join Date: Aug 2006 Ferrari Life Posts: 4	Jay - Seems like a lot of weight in the back end for a mid-engined car. I know that all the IMSA-prepped 308GTB's always had them in the front (like most mid-engined cars), but on those GTB's, the whole area was customized. Check this out as an example: 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB Serial Number 20969-Front chassis detail & fuel cell from right. The GT4 factory LeMans car seems to have used the stock locations - or maybe even the rear seat area - the cars have fuel tank fillers on both sides of the car. I also saw a photo of an other GT4 race car that had a fuel cell in the stock location - but looked like only on the one side (there were no photos of the other side of the engine bay, I don't know if there were two cells). I was thinking of doing the passenger side tank thinking that the weight would balance out with me in the driver's seat. My only worry is that once you fit a bladder inside the one stock tank, there wouldn't be much capacity - but maybe enough for a 30 minute sprint race.

04-09-2012, 02:17 PM	#10
JayG Owner Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Acworth, Ga, U.S.A. Ferrari Life Posts: 328	Pen, I like the way the GTB did it up front and that cell is HUGE. I'm doing just a 10 gallon and I was pretty set on doing it at the tail and having the electric fuel pump mounted beside it. It seemed safer to me there if the whole trunk was covered in aluminum. I may look into ditching the spare tire well and seeing what I can put up there before I use the stock location again.

04-10-2012, 07:55 AM	#12
JayG Owner Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Acworth, Ga, U.S.A. Ferrari Life Posts: 328	Hey thanks for the picture explanation. Based on what you're saying , maybe I should look into deleting the spare tire well, and putting the cell up there. I had no issues with air to water intercooler tanks the rear of other mid engine cars, but I saved a TON of weight with the radiator coming out so I may need some weight up there to balance it. Probably break even with a 10 gallon cell.

04-20-2012, 01:38 AM	#13
penpp Join Date: Aug 2006 Ferrari Life Posts: 4	Wow that is great radiator! Is that an off-the shelf model or custom. I have Griffon on another project that I haven't started yet - maybe that will work.

04-20-2012, 01:42 AM	#14
penpp Join Date: Aug 2006 Ferrari Life Posts: 4	Reply to MK E If you have the job done by one of the three known cell companies - and the tech director at your club likes what he sees (because it's not just the bladder, it's also the filler neck and the fuel lines, then you'll get an "OK" - I had no problem when I did a custom tank.