308 problems

Schumacher · 05-08-2010, 05:09 AM

Hi all

I've been mad working for the past couple of months so I haven't posted for a while although I do have a read of the threads daily.

I hop you are all well.

My 308 needs to have the head gasket replaced as we found water in the cylinders.
The plan is to do the rings and anything else that needs doing at the same time.

My mechanic is however having trouble getting the heads off as there seems to be corrosion.

I hope he manages this week to get it done.

I will keep you guys posted.

Take care

Mike

Vitalone · 05-08-2010, 12:15 PM

Mike, how did you find out there was water in the cylinders? "Mayonnaise" on the opening of the header tank? That discovery is what led to me to having my 1975 308GTB fettled.

Turned out to be a crack in one of the heads. Became one of those "while we are about it, let's do the following..." As a result obtained a recon head from Germany and had both heads crack tested and then converted to run on unleaded fuel. Crank found to be sound, forged pistons installed as old pistons with newer piston rings not ideal. New radiator fans installed. Aircon removed (ineffective at best and a lump of weight high up in the engine bay) and suspension rebushed. And Stratos Group IV rims fitted (in 60's-70's Ferrari racing gold!) Niggling problems persisted and thankfully have now found a superb expert and sympathetic Ferrari specialist thanks to Onno and he is fine tuning the little red berlinetta for safe, fast and reliable Summer motoring. Just had Birdman fusebox installed and having rear arches widened to accomodate the 345 wide rear tyres. In the long run cost a lot more than expected but no regrets as this car was sensational on FLED 2 in the Alps with her fettled motor. One of the best driving experiences of my life. And nearly a week of this motoring high in the company of fellow FLifers!

In the longer run this superb specialist and I will design to a program to bring the car up to scratch without trying to make a brand new car, rather making her safe, fast and reliable, to be driven far and fast in the spirit of a 308 GTB Group IV stradale.

So what I am saying is that costs can run out of control but use this as an opportunity to get your 308 to what you want her to be. My recommendation is to make sure you have a specialist who both knows what he is doing and really likes the 308. And then to do things properly, not a licence for the specialist to print money but also no short cuts. This is an opportunity to really get the details both big and small right.

It was been well worth the pain to fettle this magnificent little Ferrari. I hope you will rediscover motoring nirvana with your lovely 308 GTSi.

Schumacher · 05-09-2010, 04:53 AM

Thanks for the advice Dave. I will check all while we are at it. Interessingly, it seems that the engine has never been opened.

I will mail you to keep you up to date.

Btw, the Turbo is going spectacularly

ECSofVirginia · 05-09-2010, 04:46 PM

Machining an adpater for the spark plug holes and applying pressure through a grease gun is generally the most effective and least harmful way of removing cylinder heads...in additionto soaking the studs in a penetrating oil...if he needed an idea.

Schumacher · 05-09-2010, 10:31 PM

Thanks very much for the advice.

I will tell my mechanic.

Mike

Vitalone · 05-10-2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumacher

Thanks for the advice Dave. I will check all while we are at it. Interessingly, it seems that the engine has never been opened.

I will mail you to keep you up to date.

Btw, the Turbo is going spectacularly

Delighted to hear the turbo is going so well. All the more better for being in your hands and driven on a regular basis. Also means you can take your time on the 308 to have her done properly. A bonus that the motor has never been opened. Many of the niggling issues on mine appear to have been caused by too many cooks...So we are slowly undoing various bad jobs as we go along.

cribbj · 05-10-2010, 03:28 AM

The grease gun method works well, but is messy, and applies a lot of pressure on one piston. About 10 years ago I had a recalcitrant 6 cylinder head that wouldn't come off, so I rigged up a six hose manifold and connected all cylinders to it, then to an air regulator. Slowly increased the air pressure until the head lifted. IIRC, it lifted (popped) at around 3 bar.

I kept the nuts on the head studs, but ran them down to within about 5mm of the head, just to prevent the head from damaging itself when it lifted.

Both methods work well only if the valves are still sealing OK, and there's no holes in the pistons

(Obviously to use the air method, the cams have to be out, so that all valves are closed.)

Schumacher · 06-17-2010, 04:29 AM

Hi Guys

After a prolonged wait and certainly much patience, the cylinder heads are off. Not much damage in the process and so far it seems that the heads, pistons, cylinders, flywheel are all in reasonably good condition.

To see the engine all covered in gunk isn't cool and I am looking forward to having it properly cleaned while it is worked on.

The next step is for my mechanic to give me a parts list so that I can get the parts and we can get cracking!!!

I can't wait.

Mike

ECSofVirginia · 06-17-2010, 03:57 PM

Congrats on the progress! These aluminum engines look beautiful when they're cleaned up and brought back to proper condition!

Schumacher · 06-17-2010, 09:29 PM

I hope so - I am going to take pics of the restoration as it happens

05-08-2010, 05:09 AM	#1
Schumacher Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa Ferrari Life Posts: 338	308 problems Hi all I've been mad working for the past couple of months so I haven't posted for a while although I do have a read of the threads daily. I hop you are all well. My 308 needs to have the head gasket replaced as we found water in the cylinders. The plan is to do the rings and anything else that needs doing at the same time. My mechanic is however having trouble getting the heads off as there seems to be corrosion. I hope he manages this week to get it done. I will keep you guys posted. Take care Mike

05-10-2010, 03:28 AM	#7
cribbj Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Houston Ferrari Life Posts: 737 Name: John	The grease gun method works well, but is messy, and applies a lot of pressure on one piston. About 10 years ago I had a recalcitrant 6 cylinder head that wouldn't come off, so I rigged up a six hose manifold and connected all cylinders to it, then to an air regulator. Slowly increased the air pressure until the head lifted. IIRC, it lifted (popped) at around 3 bar. I kept the nuts on the head studs, but ran them down to within about 5mm of the head, just to prevent the head from damaging itself when it lifted. Both methods work well only if the valves are still sealing OK, and there's no holes in the pistons (Obviously to use the air method, the cams have to be out, so that all valves are closed.) '99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084 High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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05-08-2010, 12:15 PM	#2
Vitalone Owner Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Amsterdam Ferrari Life Posts: 638	Mike, how did you find out there was water in the cylinders? "Mayonnaise" on the opening of the header tank? That discovery is what led to me to having my 1975 308GTB fettled. Turned out to be a crack in one of the heads. Became one of those "while we are about it, let's do the following..." As a result obtained a recon head from Germany and had both heads crack tested and then converted to run on unleaded fuel. Crank found to be sound, forged pistons installed as old pistons with newer piston rings not ideal. New radiator fans installed. Aircon removed (ineffective at best and a lump of weight high up in the engine bay) and suspension rebushed. And Stratos Group IV rims fitted (in 60's-70's Ferrari racing gold!) Niggling problems persisted and thankfully have now found a superb expert and sympathetic Ferrari specialist thanks to Onno and he is fine tuning the little red berlinetta for safe, fast and reliable Summer motoring. Just had Birdman fusebox installed and having rear arches widened to accomodate the 345 wide rear tyres. In the long run cost a lot more than expected but no regrets as this car was sensational on FLED 2 in the Alps with her fettled motor. One of the best driving experiences of my life. And nearly a week of this motoring high in the company of fellow FLifers! In the longer run this superb specialist and I will design to a program to bring the car up to scratch without trying to make a brand new car, rather making her safe, fast and reliable, to be driven far and fast in the spirit of a 308 GTB Group IV stradale. So what I am saying is that costs can run out of control but use this as an opportunity to get your 308 to what you want her to be. My recommendation is to make sure you have a specialist who both knows what he is doing and really likes the 308. And then to do things properly, not a licence for the specialist to print money but also no short cuts. This is an opportunity to really get the details both big and small right. It was been well worth the pain to fettle this magnificent little Ferrari. I hope you will rediscover motoring nirvana with your lovely 308 GTSi.

05-09-2010, 04:53 AM	#3
Schumacher Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa Ferrari Life Posts: 338	Thanks for the advice Dave. I will check all while we are at it. Interessingly, it seems that the engine has never been opened. I will mail you to keep you up to date. Btw, the Turbo is going spectacularly

05-09-2010, 04:46 PM	#4
ECSofVirginia Master Mechanic Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ashburn, VA Ferrari Life Posts: 477 Name: Josh Hill	Machining an adpater for the spark plug holes and applying pressure through a grease gun is generally the most effective and least harmful way of removing cylinder heads...in additionto soaking the studs in a penetrating oil...if he needed an idea.

05-09-2010, 10:31 PM	#5
Schumacher Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa Ferrari Life Posts: 338	Thanks very much for the advice. I will tell my mechanic. Mike

06-17-2010, 04:29 AM	#8
Schumacher Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa Ferrari Life Posts: 338	Hi Guys After a prolonged wait and certainly much patience, the cylinder heads are off. Not much damage in the process and so far it seems that the heads, pistons, cylinders, flywheel are all in reasonably good condition. To see the engine all covered in gunk isn't cool and I am looking forward to having it properly cleaned while it is worked on. The next step is for my mechanic to give me a parts list so that I can get the parts and we can get cracking!!! I can't wait. Mike

06-17-2010, 03:57 PM	#9
ECSofVirginia Master Mechanic Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ashburn, VA Ferrari Life Posts: 477 Name: Josh Hill	Congrats on the progress! These aluminum engines look beautiful when they're cleaned up and brought back to proper condition!

06-17-2010, 09:29 PM	#10
Schumacher Owner Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa Ferrari Life Posts: 338	I hope so - I am going to take pics of the restoration as it happens