[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Hello everyone. I am in a rather serious dilemma. Maybe someone can talk me senses so that I can be more sensible and get this thought out of my mind. There is this owner of this gorgeous 275GTB all alloy body, long nose here in Tokyo ready to let her go. I was introduced and shown this car few hours ago. Simply, nothing short of gorgeous. This car was imported from New York to Japan. Current owner is the third in line. Upon acquisition, he shipped the car to Italy for full restoration costing him a bundle, to say the least. As usual with such well to do owners, this car was a garage queen mostly. My dilemma,...should I jump off cliff and acquire this car ? Asking price is about 80,000,000 Japanese yen. (a big sigh). If anyone care to comment, I am all ears. thanx w/ smiles Jimmy

[Vitalone]

Looks magnificent! Similar money to a 275 GTB/4? I suspect that the alloy-bodied GTB is far more rare. 2 cam, 3 Webers and alloy body versus 4 cam, 6 Webers and steel body. Looks amazing in giallo and sounds like it is excellent condition with a great provenance. This Ferrari could only enhance a collection. And it would be great to drive with less weight to drag around and bring to a stop. A nice balance between old school Ferrari V12 style with greater driveability and balance from all the independent suspension and rear-mounted gearbox. A thinking man's 250 GT SWB?

[212Export]

Dear Jimmy

Congratulations to you considering to buy that beauty. This car is rare, rare, rare. I believe that 16 alloy body "normal" GTB/2 have been produced (besides the even rarer 10 GTB/C short nose Comp cars series 1 and the 12 alloy long nose Comp. GTB/2 6C cars series II)

Have you checked the "numbers" (engine, chassis, gearbox, numero interno etc.)
Have you checked the history of the car ? (it looks like it was a ecurie Francorchamp belgian car)
Have you checked the "folio di montaggio" to check if some special orders have been applied to it ?
Have you checked who did what restoration work, when, where ?

This car looks stunning and if its history and above mentioned details are correct then you should seriusly consider it. Its about the best you may get. 275 GTB's are fantastic to drive (especially with the torque tube alignement), vivid, elastic, nimble and just extremly beautiful.

This car is NOT cheap. But I see no such car anywhere in that condition on the market right now.

One last technical thing: The alloy long nose cars are considered much lighter than the steel version. This is just partially true. The correct weight difference will be only around 30 - 50 kilos. The reason is that the alloy body of the normal GTB/2 long nose cars is much thicker than those of the long nose Competition series 2 cars. Their alloy body is so thin and light that even slightly leaning on it will almost bend the body.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Vitalone

Looks magnificent! Similar money to a 275 GTB/4? I suspect that the alloy-bodied GTB is far more rare. 2 cam, 3 Webers and alloy body versus 4 cam, 6 Webers and steel body. Looks amazing in giallo and sounds like it is excellent condition with a great provenance. This Ferrari could only enhance a collection. And it would be great to drive with less weight to drag around and bring to a stop. A nice balance between old school Ferrari V12 style with greater driveability and balance from all the independent suspension and rear-mounted gearbox. A thinking man's 250 GT SWB?

You are correct, a thinking mans 250 SWB. Much rarer than a steel bodied 250 SWB for a third of the price. Of course, the 250 SWB has a different racing pedigree as they won several Tour de France race and more, whereas racing competition wise only the 275 GTB/C 2nd series was a Le mans class winner. (Prices of these both are interestingly about the same at this time)

[JazzyO]

Holy smokin' banana, Batman! What a car!

It seems to be one of Jacques Swaeters' Ecurie Francorchamps cars - can you confirm this? It would then make sense that it has an alloy body, if it has race history. At the time, Jacques ran several 275GTB/C's and achieved a 2nd place in class (10th OA) at LeMans in 1966 with #9027. This car seems to be a non-competizione but if it has period race history this will significantly influence the price.

At current market prices, a little over $800k is a very good price for an alloy 275 GTB of this calibre, if it does have race history. If it doesn't, it's still a reasonable price.

Jimmy, if I had the means, my word....

A great car, a rock solid investment (if you don't sell in the next two years), and I've been told these are phenomenal to drive - very racy compared to the softer successors like the 330s and 365s.

But you don't really need convincing do you? I'm sure your heart has already made up its mind....


Onno

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Vitalone & 212Export,...thank you kindly for your inputs. I noticed just few very minor cosmetic anomalies (but irrelevant) such as door handles and stick knob. I'll try going back tomorrow to take more pics and check out the paperworks and records, etc. There are offers already from overseas. Nevertheless, the owner and the dealer (agent), the guy in the pic, wish to keep this historic car here in Japan, if possible. I've known this dealer for number of years now and he took me for a spin. Considering that it's been garaged and rarely driven and only after minor, quick adjusting, the ride and the sound was just magnificent. You can almost feel the alloy body "lightness". Now,...can someone talk me out of this crazy thought ? I am open for all criticisms. Thanx again. w/ smiles Jimmy

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Onno,...I thought you were going to give me a word of wisdom, among the crowd, to be sensible in this current economic turmoil to be sensible and walk away. As stated above, I'll get the details tomorrow, if I can make the time. Thanx Onno... w/ smiles Jimmy

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Vitalone & 212Export,...thank you kindly for your inputs. I noticed just few very minor cosmetic anomalies (but irrelevant) such as door handles and stick knob. I'll try going back tomorrow to take more pics and check out the paperworks and records, etc. There are offers already from overseas. Nevertheless, the owner and the dealer (agent), the guy in the pic, wish to keep this historic car here in Japan, if possible. I've known this dealer for number of years now and he took me for a spin. Considering that it's been garaged and rarely driven and only after minor, quick adjusting, the ride and the sound was just magnificent. You can almost feel the alloy body "lightness". Now,...can someone talk me out of this crazy thought ? I am open for all criticisms. Thanx again. w/ smiles Jimmy

Jimmy, such a car in such a condition is really rare. You ask for criticism: Well, possibly if at all you may be able to get that/or such a car for a lower price in the future. Maybe. I remember in the years 1999 to 2003 you would have been able to buy a alloy 275 GTB long nose for 350' - 400'000 USD. But will prices tank further ? I do not know ? Look at the "criticism" on my thread "Ferrari bear market" and the meaning of prices, it's helpless if you really want something.

I would suggest 2 questions to ask yourself:

1. Before seeing that car...was it always a great dream of you owning a 275 GTB ?
2. Considering that in a perfect world, such a great 275 GTB would further tank in price and you would be able to buy it say 25% lower. How would you feel owning something now and realizing that you just lost $ 200' ? If that does not bothers you and all your daily needs are fulfilled go for it !

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Onno,...I thought you were going to give me a word of wisdom, among the crowd, to be sensible in this current economic turmoil to be sensible and walk away. As stated above, I'll get the details tomorrow, if I can make the time. Thanx Onno... w/ smiles Jimmy

I really think I am making sense, Jimmy. It's just like stocks - when they are down you should be buying. But only if you have plenty of liquidity - they are sure to come back up (if the company doesn't go insolvent), but it might take a while. This car represents a great financial opportunity but only if you can hang on to it for long enough to have it pay off. [CAVEAT: If the car is what I think it is]

BTW - I don't mean to sound like these cars are just stock to be traded - in fact I mean the opposite. But we all have limited funds and if you want to make a responsible decision you should look at the financial implications.

One important consideration is that cars like this take a lot of responsibility and money to upkeep. But I think it is very likely you will offset any money spent by the long-term trend. And then when you look back, after you've sold it many years from now, all you can think about is the priviledge you had to be custodian of such a piece of automotive history for a while. It's sure to bring a smile to your face up to the day you die. Or am I wrong?

I would love to see more details on the car, Jimmy. She could be very special.


Onno

[JazzyO]

Just taking 212Export's wise words to heart (which were posted whilst I was typing the previous post), I guess my best response would be:

IF I was in the position to buy and maintain this car without compromising my lifestyle and considering I'm already putting money into other financial vehicles to look after my future, and the car lives up to its promise, then I would buy it, even if I were to lose some money (e.g. 212's suggestion of $200k) on it down the line.

My personal feeling is that you'd be unlikely to lose money, though.


Onno

[212Export]

Dear Jimmy

I was wondering if my assumption about the number of alloys long nose is correct and i was not correct. I went to reread Cavallino No. 9 Dyke Ridgely's general comment and chassis numbers of all 275 GTB produced. According to Dyke's research there were:

a total of 52 Alloy long nose GTB/2 produced

a total of 24 of them with 6 carburator setup

and this includes the 3 special dry sump competition cars build in early 1965 but does NOT includes the 2nd series of 12 competition long nose cars (serial number 9007 to 9085.

Just to certify if by accident your car would be a 2nd series comp car (ultra rare) the number should be 9007, 9015, 9027, 9035, 9041, 9051, 9057, 9063, 9067, 9073, 9079 and 9085. Surprises are always possible

[Granucci]

Jimmy. Here is my advice for what it's worth: These opportunities do NOT come often. IF price is your lode stone, then you have a serious dilemma as stated. IF the car is your North-Star: Spring for it. Price be d@mned...
Why

You'll know if you pass it up.

like I said: FWIW, and, what do I know.

best

rik

[stile - alpine]

Jimmy, you want a reason NOT to buy that car? I think you came to the wrong forum then, my friend! hehehehehe

It is just GORGEOUS, PERFECT! I'm drooling all over just thinking how good it would be to drive that machine!

[Lambo65]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Hello everyone. I am in a rather serious dilemma. Maybe someone can talk me senses so that I can be more sensible and get this thought out of my mind. There is this owner of this gorgeous 275GTB all alloy body, long nose here in Tokyo ready to let her go. I was introduced and shown this car few hours ago. Simply, nothing short of gorgeous. This car was imported from New York to Japan. Current owner is the third in line. Upon acquisition, he shipped the car to Italy for full restoration costing him a bundle, to say the least. As usual with such well to do owners, this car was a garage queen mostly. My dilemma,...should I jump off cliff and acquire this car ? Asking price is about 80,000,000 Japanese yen. (a big sigh). If anyone care to comment, I am all ears. thanx w/ smiles Jimmy

JIMMY!!!!!!

You are right!!! I need to get you back to PLANET EARTH and talk some serious sense to you. You are absolutely crazy and should be barred from practicing dentistry for asking such a dumb ass question. Of course you should get it!!! That is not just a car but a great investment for the future and for generations to come. It is such a beautiful piece of art. Hands down, sell all of the worthless stocks that you have no control and is being manipulated by scammers and jump in with all fours. You have worked hard all of your life, you are a professional and most importantly, a true, sincere, car enthusiast. By the way, how much is it in U.S. dollars. I know you will get it. If you do, I will promise I will visit you in Japan to check out the car. Yellow is SOOOOOOOO PERRRRRRRRFECT on the 275.

BEST!!!!!!!

[stile - alpine]

LOL

Lambo65, thanks for talking seriously with Jimmy, I think you express the feelings of most of the forum!

[212Export]

We may then plan fled 3 in Japan...if you buy it

[Lambo65]

Originally Posted by stile - alpine

LOL

Lambo65, thanks for talking seriously with Jimmy, I think you express the feelings of most of the forum!

Stile,

I am just trying to save Jimmy`s life, that is all. I know if he does not get the car, he is a definite a suicide candidate and we need every single doctor and dentist in our planet. He will regret it for the rest of his life. It is not like taking a pass on a Ferrari F40, F50, Dino, Enzo, and other collectibles. He should never have opened up his mouth and told us because it is too late. If he does pass, we all will realize he has a major chemical imbalance and definitely needs treatment and we have a loose cannon in Japan operating on people`s teeth. Sorry for the bluntness, Jimmy, we all love you so go and get your yellow car. Stop wasting time and send us more pictures.

[Granucci]

1st: A passed up F40
2nd: A [to be determined pass/taken] gorgeous 275GTB

Is anyone going to spend their money to fullfil my dream

[JTNY]

Wow! If it's well sorted, that is a truly exceptional car that's a rare opportunity.

I'm not in the camp that says you won't lose money. Who know with the first entrenched global recession how any very high end luxury market will recover? Europe is about to get slammed and things in the rest of the world are not looking much better for some time. In the vintage car market, future interest is also questionable because of the age group that covets these cars.

To me I'd only buy a high end Fcar now because I wanted to keep it forever, looking at it as an investment would not be prudent in my opinion. Let's remember how long it took prices to come back after '90, and that was with boomers not dying off!

Congratulations in advance on a magnificent example. I envy you!

Dentists clearly do well in Japan!

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Jimmy, such a car in such a condition is really rare. You ask for criticism: Well, possibly if at all you may be able to get that/or such a car for a lower price in the future. Maybe. I remember in the years 1999 to 2003 you would have been able to buy a alloy 275 GTB long nose for 350' - 400'000 USD. But will prices tank further ? I do not know ? Look at the "criticism" on my thread "Ferrari bear market" and the meaning of prices, it's helpless if you really want something.

I would suggest 2 questions to ask yourself:

1. Before seeing that car...was it always a great dream of you owning a 275 GTB ?
2. Considering that in a perfect world, such a great 275 GTB would further tank in price and you would be able to buy it say 25% lower. How would you feel owning something now and realizing that you just lost $ 200' ? If that does not bothers you and all your daily needs are fulfilled go for it !

Where is the bottom though? It is always impossible to time any market, whether it be real estate, stock or cars.

Jimmy, I would suggest getting it if the timing is right for you. Now is a good time to buy anything in my opinion. It may not be "bottom" but it is a bit far down from the peak.