[Filmjay]

Well, not really a question per se, but I'd like opinions.

I've already stated that I'm building a 250 GTO replica and will be spending quite a large amount of time on it.
But, time is what I'm rich in...money, not so much. Well, not vintage Ferrari money anyway. Which is sad as those are the models that speak to me the most. But, I want my project to be the best that I can possibly make it, yet not be so unattainable that I'd be spending a small fortune and taking years longer than would be necessary to actually complete and enjoy the project.


But, my request for opinions would be this...but please keep in mind that this is not a restoration of a vintage Ferrari. It is a replica of a vintage Ferrari using modern components and techniques....

I know the '74 308/328's were the first Ferrari V8's, and carburated, although fuel injection was added in 1980.
While, I'd love to find a vintage Ferrari V8, I don't know if it would be feasible. I've found V12's for sale, but not complete, and they run in the $30-50,000 range for just the long block, not including any of the electronics, harnesses, or induction equipment. So, for my project, a V12 is going to be out of the question.

A V8 is what I'd like to use. So far, I can build a completely custom 500-600hp Chevrolet V8 with a custom Ferrari/Weber style induction for a fraction of the cost of what a new Ferrari V8 long block would be.

...and I REALLY want to have a Ferrari heart in the Ferrari body.

So, where would I even begin to look for a vintage V8? I can fabricate SOME of the necessary components like the intake manifold and headers.

Are there engine blueprints available anywhere? I think that even if I couldn't find a decent Ferrari engine, I could custom fabricate one (or at least something similar) if I had all the specs.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to replies!

['75 308 GT4 (Peter)]

You have a couple choices that are not that out of reach and are more than just an engine:

- Fiat Dino Coupe. It's a front-engined, rear-drive layout with a live axle rear suspension and with that lovely Dino V-6 motor. Michael Sheehan currently has a 196 replica for sale on his website and this should give you a good idea of what it looks like (although this car's engine features twin-plug heads which are quite rare and expensive). As an example, I remember only a few years ago, there was a decent Fiat Dino Coupe for sale in Seattle and they were only asking $8500 bucks for it. They've gone up since but are still within grasp and after you'd remove the parts needed for your replica, you could part out the rest and get some of your money back.

- Ferrari 400. Again, front-engined, rear drive (although with independant rear suspension) and yes, it's a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine! You can certainly pick up a ratty ebay special for cheap and get all of the parts you need, then sell the rest. The carb versions would stay more true to the original concept but are rarer than the fuel-injected cars.

With these two to start with, you can get your whole drivetrain/suspension - which eats up the biggest amount of the construction budget - and then the chassis and body can be built around it.

[Gcalo]

Originally Posted by Filmjay

---what I'm rich in...money, not so much.---

Well for sure this is a recipe for disaster! Are you nuts?

What will you have when you are done?

Get yourself a 308, spend a great deal of time cleaning and perfecting it and then you'll have value for your efforts.

Don't try to build a replicar that will end up having little value. You will regret the attempt.

[Filmjay]

Originally Posted by Gcalo

Well for sure this is a recipe for disaster! Are you nuts?

No, I am quite sane. I wondered how long it would be before the elitists chimed in.
But, the point of the statement you've quoted was that, no, I don't have the money to go out and buy a $100,000 car outright. Not everyone is so fortunate, no matter how hard they work. But, I can BUILD in stages and DO have the skillsets and tools to build, restore, and maintain ANY vehicle of my choosing.
So you have fun with your $5,000 tune ups. I can do my own quite easily, thank you very much.

What will you have when you are done?

A dimensionally correct 250 GTO replica that will perform better than nearly any "real" OE Ferrari on the road save for the odd halo car. This is not one of those terrible Fiero replicas. This is craftsmanship.
The frame has already been modified to reflect the orignals' wheelbase down to 2mm accuracy, for example.

Get yourself a 308, spend a great deal of time cleaning and perfecting it and then you'll have value for your efforts.
Don't try to build a replicar that will end up having little value. You will regret the attempt.

Thanks for the wholly unhelpful reply. But as I'm planning on a 250 GTO replica...the chances are pretty slim I, or any member here, will ever have an original. If I wanted a 308, I'd go buy a 308.

But, I am not planning my build for "value". I am building it for my own personal satisfaction. Because I have the ability to do so. Everyone should be so lucky.
My car will be just that, MY car...built in the spirit of the vintage Ferraris' past. Using fiberglass, aluminum, steel, and carbon fiber, I'm creating my OWN masterpiece...though based on the most classic of classic cars. Cars that are no more because they were cut up and recycled.
The spirit remains though...through cars that weren't even cosmetically designed by Ferrari, only the engines. Cars meant to be driven, not *cringe*...collected.

I haven't even started and am already getting offers enough to purchase a brace of 308's. I've had so many PM's about my project asking if I'm going to do others, I'm actually considering it.
And I have choice fluids to expel towards anyone that views any Ferrari as an "investment"...the bane of the true automotive enthusiast.

[Filmjay]

Originally Posted by '75 308 GT4 (Peter)

You have a couple choices that are not that out of reach and are more than just an engine:

- Fiat Dino Coupe. It's a front-engined, rear-drive layout with a live axle rear suspension and with that lovely Dino V-6 motor. Michael Sheehan currently has a 196 replica for sale on his website and this should give you a good idea of what it looks like (although this car's engine features twin-plug heads which are quite rare and expensive). As an example, I remember only a few years ago, there was a decent Fiat Dino Coupe for sale in Seattle and they were only asking $8500 bucks for it. They've gone up since but are still within grasp and after you'd remove the parts needed for your replica, you could part out the rest and get some of your money back.

- Ferrari 400. Again, front-engined, rear drive (although with independant rear suspension) and yes, it's a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine! You can certainly pick up a ratty ebay special for cheap and get all of the parts you need, then sell the rest. The carb versions would stay more true to the original concept but are rarer than the fuel-injected cars.

With these two to start with, you can get your whole drivetrain/suspension - which eats up the biggest amount of the construction budget - and then the chassis and body can be built around it.

Thank you. I would like a carb version, but am not opposed to EFI. If I can't get a carb motor, I'll simply be fabricating an intake and using ITB's anyway. The runner length would still be the same.
Though I do hate the idea of cutting up a classic, in any form. If a damaged donor car could be found, that's okay. But I refuse to dismantle a quality specimen.

Though I do have a Shelby Series 1 Aurora V8 (4.0L)in the engine room I'm considering using. It's a longer bore and stroke, so it wouldn't have QUITE the beautiful whine, but with new cams and rods, it will easily spin 8500-9000 rpms and make about 450-500rwhp.

But, I'm still throwing around engine possibilities. Being CARB exempt helps though. I'm nowhere near ready to drop a motor yet, so I've got plenty of time to consider my options. And maybe come up with something unique.

You better believe I'm scouring ebay though. I've even contacted Michael Sheehan about the possibility of a vintage long block.

Thanks again for your suggestions though. I'll be considering all the options, and a few more never hurt.

[carguy]

I would definately want a Ferrari engine for the car. As mentioned earlier, the Ferrari 400 or 412 would be a great donor car that isn't terribly expensive. If you must go a different route for the engine, consider maybe a Jag v-12 or a BMW v-12. I you were to use the Aurora (mini-Caddy Northstar) engine I would definately change the cam covers and other items to make the engine "appear" as some strange exotic piece. There is a speed shop that makes cool stuff for the Northstar-type engines....not cheap though.

For me....nothing but a v-12 would do the trick. The areas most lacking in "replica" GTOs I've seen are the rake of the windshield, the shape of the doors and windows, suspension heights, and the wheel base and offsets. To make a truly dimensionally correct GTO is a huge undertaking....and I wish you all success in your endeavors.

Keep us posted on your progress....

[Filmjay]

Thanks.

Actually, dimensionally, the windshield rake is an exact match. And as has been stated, the chassis wheelbase has already been modified to within 2mm accuracy. The only real identifying features would be the C-pillars (which are slanted and curved in the original) and the wider, more curved rear glass of the original.

But, I've already alotted for a full threaded coil-over suspension, so the ride height will be fully adjustable.

The speed shop for Northstars you mentioned is CHRFab, and I've already spoken to them about the project. In addition to custom cam covers, they would be supplying the cams (as well as other goodies; pistons, rods, springs/retainers, etc.)...and yes, I know they're not cheap. For what I'd get the parts for, I could easily do a bare block 600-700+hp SBC build. Not to mention that their parts are mainly for the 4.4/4.6 Northstars, while mine is a 4.0. The liners can't be honed (thanks Shelby), so I'd be somewhat limited. But, I have a phone appointment with CHR on Tuesday to discuss my options.

Plus I've already arranged a custom ITB EFI with Extrudabody performance...no matter what engine I use. But, depending on the engine I settle on, I may get to submit it for prototyping.
I love the Webers and all, but they ARE a real pain in the neck. An ITB setup would give the look of the Weber stacks, but the reliability, consistency, performance and ease of tuning in an EFI package.

A Jag V12 is out of the question though. They're immensely wide. And a BMW V12 has already been done and well documented in another GTO replica from a pair of ladies in the Chicago area.
I have a contact in Florida that offered an Arrows F1 engine...but that's just a little TOO exotic for me. HA!

I can find Ferrari engines all day...but they're just a bit more than what I want to spend on an engine for this project...I'd like to keep the driveline in the 10K range, building it myself mind you.

Everything is already decided on; suspension, brakes, gearing, electrical, fuel delivery, wheels/tires, etc...even down to the weave of carbon fiber I'm using in some of the components I'm hand fabricating. And it's all been arranged from their corresponding suppliers/manufacturers.

I'm just debating now on a small high-revving aluminum block V8 with a little less power, or a bigger, more powerful, easier to maintain 1st Generation V8 with gobs more power.

Of course, by the time I'm actually ready to mate engine to mount, I may have found a nice Ferrari donor.

I'm just having a bit of fun in dreaming up what's possible...and bringing you guys along for the ride. Ideally, I'd be able to find some Ferrari engine blueprints and try to fab up some of the correct parts myself.

[carguy]

If I may ask....what engine parts would you consider fabricating....since your probably going to use a domestic v-8 engine? Would you be making some covers or shrouds to disguise the engine a bit? I have a street rod friend who is running a small block Ford that actually looks like an early Chrysler Hemi! I closer inspection reveals the truth, but from a few feet away it looks cool.

[Gcalo]

Originally Posted by Filmjay

No, I am quite sane. I wondered how long it would be before the elitists chimed in.---

Sanity is very doubtful but your immaturity and experience are prevalent.

No eliteists here. Just parctical folks with much life experience.

This is something you will need to learn.

[Filmjay]

Originally Posted by carguy

If I may ask....what engine parts would you consider fabricating....since your probably going to use a domestic v-8 engine? Would you be making some covers or shrouds to disguise the engine a bit? I have a street rod friend who is running a small block Ford that actually looks like an early Chrysler Hemi! I closer inspection reveals the truth, but from a few feet away it looks cool.

Air box, valve covers, intake and exhaust manifolds. Perhaps a set of connecting rods if I cannot find an appropriate length

Though, if I use the DOHC Aurora engine, cam/valve covers would be a bit more difficult.

[Granucci]

go ahead and build it. It has been done before, and many times over.

I will take this project with a grain of salt in that you want that car as a piece of workmanship and feeling to drive one: DO IT.

If done to the specs you desire, then hopefully it will be a work of art in your own vision.

BUT as GC states, it is basically never to be expressed as a 250 nor will you be able to probably sell it for what you put into it. but, that aside, why not.

I do suggest you look at the 400, BUT they can be more costly to rebuild than you think. Obviously you can't drop a more modern 456 in there, but there is one to be had [with a car wrapped around it] for about $30k tranny and all.

IF you are looking to just putt about, try starting here: http://www.eurospares.co.uk/index.asp?ID1=0&M=1&G=

then here : http://ferraripartsexchange.com/

post pics.

rik PS: I don't think GC was being an elitist. I mean he has cup holders for sale and he did do this: http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/sh...0218#post80218

[Filmjay]

Originally Posted by Granucci

try starting here: http://www.eurospares.co.uk/index.asp?ID1=0&M=1&G=

then here : http://ferraripartsexchange.com/

Thank you for the links. I wasn't familiar with either of those sites yet. The ferrari parts exchange site is chock full of useful goodies. AND they're in the US, so that is double helpful. I'm really liking some of their engines. Though I would need to do some more research in adapting a particular one to a FE/RWD application. Spline count, necessary shaft length, housing, etc...Guess I need to start looking for shop manuals.

Thanks again.

[Andrew]

Some replicas can still go for a few hundred thousand:

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages...=SCM_200611_SS

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Filmjay

Thank you for the links. I wasn't familiar with either of those sites yet. The ferrari parts exchange site is chock full of useful goodies. AND they're in the US, so that is double helpful. I'm really liking some of their engines. Though I would need to do some more research in adapting a particular one to a FE/RWD application. Spline count, necessary shaft length, housing, etc...Guess I need to start looking for shop manuals.

Thanks again.

Sorry to miss this reply, but there are several other options you can pursue:
1. Try this current set of listings:
- a. a 250 body, ready for an engine and your custom restoration work..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferra...QQcmdZViewItem
2. This recreation of a 250 for the Miami Vice set. It was one of three, where the 3rd was only a shell that was blown up. But this offering has a corvette body and workings...might cut down on your effort..get it out of your system and then? Daytona [I know, but understand the effort and price] http://www.dallenauto.com/Showroom.html

[rtorq]

Let me know if your interested: we have a fiat dino that we stripped down to rebuild but my partner passed on so I'm willing to sell the body, V6 ferrari engine, tranny and rear end. the engine is complete with carbs. let us know or email me at once69bitten@yahoo.com

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by rtorq

Let me know if your interested: we have a fiat dino that we stripped down to rebuild but my partner passed on so I'm willing to sell the body, V6 ferrari engine, tranny and rear end. the engine is complete with carbs. let us know or email me at once69bitten@yahoo.com

that's a nice offer, but somehow I think that he is either well into this project [several years old] or gave it up: We'll see.

[SCM246]

Not sure where you are located, but here is a Ferrari recycler in N. CA, USA
Specialized Italian Recycling used Italian car parts & repairables

[tazandjan]

rtorq- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Is that a two liter Fiat Dino or a 2.4 liter and coupe or spider? Might get you some more hits with more info.

[SCM246]

pls delete, can't find the button to do this

[lucca brazzi]

Originally Posted by Filmjay

Well, not really a question per se, but I'd like opinions.

I've already stated that I'm building a 250 GTO replica and will be spending quite a large amount of time on it.
But, time is what I'm rich in...money, not so much. Well, not vintage Ferrari money anyway. Which is sad as those are the models that speak to me the most. But, I want my project to be the best that I can possibly make it, yet not be so unattainable that I'd be spending a small fortune and taking years longer than would be necessary to actually complete and enjoy the project.


But, my request for opinions would be this...but please keep in mind that this is not a restoration of a vintage Ferrari. It is a replica of a vintage Ferrari using modern components and techniques....

I know the '74 308/328's were the first Ferrari V8's, and carburated, although fuel injection was added in 1980.
While, I'd love to find a vintage Ferrari V8, I don't know if it would be feasible. I've found V12's for sale, but not complete, and they run in the $30-50,000 range for just the long block, not including any of the electronics, harnesses, or induction equipment. So, for my project, a V12 is going to be out of the question.

A V8 is what I'd like to use. So far, I can build a completely custom 500-600hp Chevrolet V8 with a custom Ferrari/Weber style induction for a fraction of the cost of what a new Ferrari V8 long block would be.

...and I REALLY want to have a Ferrari heart in the Ferrari body.

So, where would I even begin to look for a vintage V8? I can fabricate SOME of the necessary components like the intake manifold and headers.

Are there engine blueprints available anywhere? I think that even if I couldn't find a decent Ferrari engine, I could custom fabricate one (or at least something similar) if I had all the specs.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to replies!

there is a 328 motor for sale on ebay ( 18k miles i think) for 7500,,ill bet you can get the motor and gearbox for 5 grand..its a recession...theres a few guys who take those 328 motors and build 3.4 and 3.5 s out of them,,not sure it thats helps..good luck,,Brett