[Admiral Goodwrench]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy

I rode with Bill Ziering at Riverside when he had the ex-Doheny/Cord 121LM. The same size engine as a Daytona with half the cylinders. Apparently the clutch was a light switch. As we waited for our turn to enter the track Bill would let a huge gap develop between us and the car in front. He would then move up with a roar, the car would leap forward and then he would have to stand on the brakes and the clutch - no feathering to creep forward possible.

Dear Jeff,

That clutch was exactly the same clutch that was in my 500 Mondial, photo attached. It has 9 metal plates alternating steel/aluminum etc. As long as there is .0001 clearance then there is no torque transmitted. As soon as there is no clearance it is all transmitted. For the unwary, the typical start was to apply a little gas, let the clutch out slowly, listen to the tires chirp, feel the car lurch forward a few feet and listen to the motor die. Ask me how I know. Eventually one learns to get the motor up to about 3500 or above (when it gets on the cam) and then drop the clutch knowing that you will leave four or five feet of rubber as you motor on down the street.

Some other statistics will give you a fair idea of the power weight ratios involved in these cars, and then consider the skinny tires with the really hard rubber compound and you can start to get a feeling for the driving experience of those days.

My two liter motor tipo 111 puts out 172 BHP at 7000 rpm and weighs 720 kilos (1584 lbs). P/W ratio about 9.2:1.

The 3.5 liter 857 and 860 Super Monza motors tipo 129 had bores of over 4 inches and were the first long stroke (under-square) Lampredi motors. They put out about 285 BHP at 6000 rpm and their weight was about 860 kilos (1890 lbs). P/W ratio about 6.6:1

The 4.4 liter 121s put out about 330 BHP at 6000 rpm and their weight was about 880 kilo (1936 lbs). P/W ratio about 5.8:1

Terry, you are right, this really belongs on the "Raw" thread.

Best regards,

[tazandjan]

Admiral- Did anyone actually wear out one of those clutches? It looks indestructible. I can see how the pressure plate might wear out, but it looks like the discs would last forever. That really is an on-off switch. With modern wheel and tire widths, it would be a toss-up between stalling and a burn-out.

That 121 P/W ratio is up there with a Corvette ZR1, and those have slightly wider tires. No wonder they were such a handful to drive in the 50s. My car squirms under power with nowhere near that power to weight ratio and tires (355/25 19) that are over a foot wide each.

[Admiral Goodwrench]

Dear Terry,

The answer surprisingly enough is yes they do wear out. The aluminum plates tend to start having slight galling which then sluffs off and over time become thinner, eventually to the point that slippage occurs. My car was an old tired war horse after numerous long races and shortly after my drive from San Francisco to Staten Island in 1963 I had to pay a visit to Chinetti's parts guy for a solution.

You are also right that the P/W ratios are surprising and reflect the advanced stage of motor development for the period.

I cannot resist a response to any mention of wide tires.

Best regards,

[tazandjan]

Admiral- OK, I give, what is it?

[Jeff Kennedy]

Phil Hill told me once how he did not like the 4 cylinder (and I assume the 6s) because of the power characteristics. He said that with the 12s in the peak power range it communicated that it was time to shift. On the other hand the in lines pulled all the way up the range but required to keep a careful eye on the tach as it felt the same way up to the point of motor failure.

Jeff

[JayG]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Admiral- OK, I give, what is it?

Is it a Moke?

[Admiral Goodwrench]

Dear Jay,

Correct. Fastest Moke in the world in 1974

Terry please see:
What do you do for a hobby post # 74

Best regards,

[JayG]

Looks like a beast! I drove a rhd 1100 cc truck version once in Florida. Interesting little vehicle.

[tazandjan]

Admiral- Thanks. That is about as far as you can get from the Mini Estate I had in the UK. I missed the original post because that is before I joined Ferrari Life in late August.