[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Brian,...I am amazed and humbled by the immense size and density of your "crystal ball" (I meant to mean knowledge and experience, of course). w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Brian

All hand made bodies have a lot of filler

In my understanding the term filler is only used for the cement-type material. Originally the Italian bodies were filled-in with tin. This tinning process is something of a lost art. My restorer Tito in Holland is Italian and he learnt his craft in the 1960's at the Bertone production line, when he was 16.

My GTC has been restored using the tinning and it is amazing how smooth you can get these cars if you take the time. Of course, back in the day, Tito only had a couple of minutes per car.... To say the production pressure was not high is, as far as I understood from him, incorrect. Exactly what cars were coming through on that production line, I'm not sure though. Anyway, I will ask him about it this week.


Onno

[Jeff Kennedy]

Brian,

Were you at Griswold's when the 250 LM 5909 was done for Fred Knoop and the poster 250 GTO for Brain Brunkhorst? Was 4091 done there too?

I kept 5909 in LA for Bob Epstein for 2 months. He had both 4091 and 5909 at the same time and couldn't decide which to keep.

Jeff

[Jeff Kennedy]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

In my understanding the term filler is only used for the cement-type material. Originally the Italian bodies were filled-in with tin. This tinning process is something of a lost art. My restorer Tito in Holland is Italian and he learnt his craft in the 1960's at the Bertone production line, when he was 16.

My GTC has been restored using the tinning and it is amazing how smooth you can get these cars if you take the time. Of course, back in the day, Tito only had a couple of minutes per car.... To say the production pressure was not high is, as far as I understood from him, incorrect. Exactly what cars were coming through on that production line, I'm not sure though. Anyway, I will ask him about it this week.


Onno

Onno,

I understand that there were different production lines for Bertone. There were the low volume cars then the high volume ones where very limited time would have been available.

It certainly true that the standard of restoration on anything today is higher than when the cars were originally built. The classic cars have used a mental standard of "how it could have been built if they had all the time necessary". That is what led to aligned bolt heads on chassis and engines.

your term of "tin" may be the same as what I have heard as "lead" a molten metal used as a filler. Heavier and slower than a plastic filler. It is also supposed to be more stable over long periods. Was told a long time ago that all the E-Type doors are fitted on the edges with this.

Jeff

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy

your term of "tin" may be the same as what I have heard as "lead" a molten metal used as a filler

Tin is a different metal from lead, and lead is AFAIK not (as?) suitable for the process. I think the difference in ease of oxidation has a lot to do with that, but perhaps there other reasons. Certainly tin is a lot lighter (roughly 30%).

Tin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It may be that the actual material used is not pure tin but an alloy, I'm not sure.


Onno

[Jeff Kennedy]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Tin is a different metal from lead, and lead is AFAIK not (as?) suitable for the process. I think the difference in ease of oxidation has a lot to do with that, but perhaps there other reasons. Certainly tin is a lot lighter (roughly 30%).

Tin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It may be that the actual material used is not pure tin but an alloy, I'm not sure.


Onno

"Lead" my not be accurate either; just the commonly used term. Thinking this could be the same material both in the US and Europe. It certainly is serving the same purpose. Maybe one of our restoration experts can weigh in.

Jeff

[Brian]

It is a tin /lead alloy just as solder is. Neither material is suitable in pure form. Tinning was the term more commonly used outside US.

Here is a photo of a dent repair of our 328. It is finished off with lead or tin as you like it. While it is not a comon skill I suspect it is more common now than 20 years ago, at least in this country. The guy who did this is a 1st gen Italian American who learned it from his Father.


Also see what was hidden under the bondo in the R/R corner and after the metal work.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy

Brian,

Were you at Griswold's when the 250 LM 5909 was done for Fred Knoop and the poster 250 GTO for Brain Brunkhorst? Was 4091 done there too?

I kept 5909 in LA for Bob Epstein for 2 months. He had both 4091 and 5909 at the same time and couldn't decide which to keep.

Jeff

Yes I was. You know we gave out those posters like Blue Chip Stamps and I never kept one for myself. They have become collectors items now. I know the photographer and he is thinking of reprinting them, he owns it.

I do not know if 4091 was done there or not. You have to remember at that time we really didn't fully grasp the importance and history that was going on all around us. Also I was young and thought this was a really cool place to work. I never thought to record any of it or photograph any of it. It was not only a really great learning opportunity for me because of all the people I worked with and got the benefit of some of their knowledge but it hasn't hurt to have it in my resume either.

That poster was shot in the restoration department on a Saturday or Sunday. They shoved everthing out of the way, hung a bunch of white beadsheets up as a backdrop and arranged the car and all the components on the floor. Allan shot it and airbrushed out all the wrinkles from the beadsheets so it looks like a plain smooth white backdrop. Lots of people do not believe it is a real car.


I have not heard Epstiens name for a long time. He had a 427SC Cobra that he drove to the store late one day just as I was getting off work. He handed me the keys and said the tank was full and he would be there a while. I brought it back 45 minutes later and as I was handing over the keys my hand was shaking causing the keys to rattle. He looked me in the eye and asked "Was it good for you?".

I could tell stories about him for a while.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Brian,...I am amazed and humbled by the immense size and density of your "crystal ball" (I meant to mean knowledge and experience, of course). w/ smiles Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy.

I have had a lot of fun and met a lot of great people. Been in the right place at the right time more than I had any right to expect.

If I had known how much history I was around I would have paid more attention.

[tazandjan]

Brian- That is getting pretty close to "If I had known I would live this long, I would have taken better care of myself."

[Jeff Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Brian

I could tell stories about him for a while.

There was a reason he was called "Crazy Bob"!. He told me the story of driving his Cobra on the Redwood Road (terrorizing the road was probably more apt). He left some policeman in his dust then when he got home he called the relevant police office and had the cop come to the house. Since Bob was some sort of part time judge he had a bit of pull to get out of such things.

Marshall Mathews told me how at one of the FOC gatherings at his house in Atherton Bob was giving rides up and down the hill in the LM. Apparently the rides were so good that George Dyer started to complain about someone being a bit too aggressive on the road. [Dyer owned a 250 GTO at the time and lived on the same road]

Whenever I over reved the LM on mis-shifts I consoled myself that it was still less than where Bob had left the tell-tale from his last time.

Jeff

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy

There was a reason he was called "Crazy Bob"!. He told me the story of driving his Cobra on the Redwood Road (terrorizing the road was probably more apt). He left some policeman in his dust then when he got home he called the relevant police office and had the cop come to the house. Since Bob was some sort of part time judge he had a bit of pull to get out of such things.

Marshall Mathews told me how at one of the FOC gatherings at his house in Atherton Bob was giving rides up and down the hill in the LM. Apparently the rides were so good that George Dyer started to complain about someone being a bit too aggressive on the road. [Dyer owned a 250 GTO at the time and lived on the same road]

Whenever I over reved the LM on mis-shifts I consoled myself that it was still less than where Bob had left the tell-tale from his last time.

Jeff

I grew up very close to where he lived in the East Bay. I was driving back from Monterey in a Lusso one year, getting close to home, still on the freeway but up in the hills. I was doing a hundred or so when he passed me in his Dino. He honked and waved. A few seconds later I realized he had a CHP in tow. Well being the easier target the CHP locked on to me. I got off the freeway and into the hill roads I knew so well from my street racing days to lose the CHP. I told Bob about it a couple of years later and he got a good laugh out of it.


The Dyer GTO is the one now owned by Brandon Wang.

[Dreambrother]

TIC: Ferrari 250 GTL (GT/L) (Lusso) Berlinetta 1964 - *EN* - Full HD - YouTube

I also filmed a fantastic testdrive, but I do not have permission to upload in onto internet yet. When the car is sold, I have the right to do so. So up until that time, this is a showroom movie. Also a 1964 restored Lusso. It is my alltime favorite car!

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Fantastic stories and there's nothing but grin on my face. Thank You all for sharing. w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Fantastic stories and there's nothing but grin on my face. Thank You all for sharing. w/ smiles Jimmy

+1!


Onno

[tazandjan]

The good old days.

[Dreambrother]

Double post.

[tazandjan]

DB- Great shots. They need to get you out on the road with the car. Will make selling it easy.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Dreambrother

TIC: Ferrari 250 GTL (GT/L) (Lusso) Berlinetta 1964 - *EN* - Full HD - YouTube

I also filmed a fantastic testdrive, but I do not have permission to upload in onto internet yet. When the car is sold, I have the right to do so. So up until that time, this is a showroom movie. Also a 1964 restored Lusso. It is my alltime favorite car!

Interesting. This car is at The Gallery in Brummen. An interesting place, I've visited quite a few times (great for a Sunday drive and visit). Normally at least 100 classic cars for sale over there. Quality varies quite a bit, though. I've seen a lovely 330GTC there but most of the cars are not up to my (admittedly high) standard, including most Ferraris. Nothing but respect for Nico Aaldering, the owner, though, he's built a great shop there, is a nice guy, and he does always have some lovely cars.

I love Lussos. I hope this is a good one and I wish them good luck on the sale.


Onno