[tonyt]

I see a few of the gtc team here have had work done on the front / rear suspension and I would appreciate thoughts on the options available to me for my 365gtc - at present it is booked in for the winter to have the suspension refurbished...

I do not beleive the suspension has been worked on for > 20 years and the only comparison I have is a 275gtb alloy which is absolutely rock hard and makes the ride on mine feel a little like driving a sofa. Obviously the 365gtc was never meant to be as firm as the 275gtb, but I am hoping that the refurb will result in a little less body roll on turn in...

Should I expect significant change in feel of the car just from the refurb (inc rebuild of dampers), or should I be looking at replacing parts?
(to be clear, this is an old car and I think it should handle like one - I just don't have enough experience to know what itv should have handled like)

thoughts appreciated...

thanks
Tony

[JazzyO]

I would replace parts. This car should handle like it did when it was new, not when it was 10 years old.

The previous owner had mounted Intrax dampers on my GTC. Sublime handling but hardly original. He didn't include the dampers in the sale so mine is back on the - I think - Koni's.

I'm extremely happy with the handling on my GTC. It is in the middle between firm and soft, with a nudge to firm. The car lets itself play nicely on the limit and has very good grip. One thing that I suspect has quite an influence is the camber on the rear wheels. It seems to me mine has a bit more than most GTCs (see pic).

Like you, I have little comparison material and I haven't driven any other GTCs to compare with. But the previous owner is well versed in vintage Ferraris and he knows what he is talking about.


Onno

[JazzyO]

Another pic that shows the camber.


Onno

[JazzyO]

Some pics to show body roll, as you can see on the shot taken at Imola (the first) it is quite firm. On both these pics I'm gunning for it and they are taken at maximum G's. FWIW, my VBOX recorded 0.86G on the Mille Miglia Tribute which I thought was quite impressive for such an old car on worn tires.


Onno

[Brian]

Ferrari springs of that era did not last well. If you rebush the suspension, rebuild the shocks and replace the springs I am confident it will drive like a different car. Do not ignore the steering box either. The worm and roller were subject to wear and making it right again will be an additional big difference.

[tonyt]

thanks for the insights - am visiting the mechanic tomorrow to put a plan together for the suspension work

[tonyt]

so...suspension plan in two parts as agreed with my mechanic
- suspension off - strip and powder coat
- rebuild konis
- test springs against original tolerance / replace if showing as soft

put that back together and see how it feels..

part 2 (if still necessary, and after playing around with camber as per Onno's experience)
- change original anti roll bars for thicker ones

anything I have missed here?

[a1exander]

Not really provided you get some photos taken and you post them

[bryanp]

Originally Posted by tonyt

so...suspension plan in two parts as agreed with my mechanic
- suspension off - strip and powder coat
- rebuild konis
- test springs against original tolerance / replace if showing as soft

put that back together and see how it feels..

part 2 (if still necessary, and after playing around with camber as per Onno's experience)
- change original anti roll bars for thicker ones

anything I have missed here?

maybe go w/ urethane at the anti-roll bar pick-up points to see if that gives you the feel you want, before going thru the expense of fatter bars.

[SCM246]

Originally Posted by Brian

Ferrari springs of that era did not last well. If you rebush the suspension, rebuild the shocks and replace the springs I am confident it will drive like a different car.

Do not ignore the steering box either.

The worm and roller were subject to wear and making it right again will be an additional big difference.

I was going to add this but see Brian hit it on the head. Few owners think of servicing their steering rack but it can affect the "driving feel" of a car

Originally Posted by bryanp

maybe go w/ urethane at the anti-roll bar pick-up points to see if that gives you the feel you want, before going thru the expense of fatter bars.

I once bought a Maserati with these poly (eurathane) bushings in them. With that experience I would never use them again ona vintage car.

[tonyt]

further input over the holiday period as far as changing the roll bars from some guys who have tinkered with track / race set ups ....DON'T

apparently stiffening the front and leaving the back would make handling a littel tricky (I guess this does make sense)
changing both to stiffer would likely increase understeer

...so I think I will drop the roll bar mod

[Neopolitano]

Tony,

As part of the mechanical restoration of GTC 9593 i had the suspension refurbished. New Konis, new ball joints and new bushings all around. By replacing these worn out parts the car's handling was completely transformed.

Although I made other upgrades to the car [cooling, electrics, a/c] I left the suspension stock. The car handles quite well with predictable initial understeer and throttle controlled oversteer. As Onno noted make sure the alignment is correct as this certainly affects the handling characteristics.

When you get the suspension rebuilt it will feel completely transformed. It's a fun car to toss about.

[malcolmb]

I second the advice from neopolitano- I did this same service to my Daytona, 275and gtc, in each case it was transformational. Leave it stock.
Malcolm

[tazandjan]

Malcolm- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Introduce yourself down below in Member Intros and we will get you signed up as an owner. Sounds like you have an interesting stable of cars.

[JazzyO]

Am I right in guessing that you're the Malcolm that shipped his 275 to Italy for the Targa Florio in 2009 I think? That was a great trip! Welcome!


Onno

[bryanp]

Originally Posted by SCM246

I once bought a Maserati with these poly (eurathane) bushings in them. With that experience I would never use them again ona vintage car.

out of curiosity, why not?

[malcolmb]

Onno: yep,that was me, and it was great fun. I would like to do it again but the situation has become muddled. Maybe several of us should just meet up there and drive.
Malcolm

[JazzyO]

Sounds like a great idea to me, Malcolm. I've been very keen on going to Sicily for a couple of years now. For some reason I wanted to take the Boxer there, if I want to do that before I sell it, I better do it this year. But the GTC would love it there too, I am sure.


Onno

[tonyt]

progress update - everything has been in bits, and took much longer to dissassemble than had been expected. Much had never been touched, and the bushings had to be burned out, but with a following wind will be finished some time next week:-
- Had springs tested and were within original tolerances and so kept them
- koni's went off for manufacturer rebuild and are now back
- ball joints and bushings all replaced
- handbrake fell apart when the casing was opened up (I suspected this as I could push the car along flat ground with handbrake fully applied). Strangely, the 550 uses an identical system even 30 years on, so original parts replacement was not as hard as might have been

Excerpt from mechanic summary:

Brake calipers. These have all been stripped, blasted, crack tested and new stainless steel pistons have been fitted with all new seals etc. picture is of a front. Photo 1
Suspension parts . photo 2 is some of the parts of one corner waiting to be assembled to give you an idea of what we are doing.– all parts have been stripped, blasted, , re-plated and then gone through the correct post plating de-embrittlement process. Threads have then be re-cut etc. all bushes were burnt out before the above and new ones are now being fitted.
Dampers/springs. These have been tested stripped, cleaned, plated or painted as appropriate and new bushed fitted. See photo 3
Hubs/uprights these have been stripped, plated or painted etc as appropriate and new bearings fitted. Photo 4

once suspension is back on, I have stainless manifolds to be fitted, and repairs to small leaks on one of the fuel tanks. Have been able to get mild steel ansa boxes and pipes, but could not get hold of similar mainifolds. Mr Classiche advises that stainless manifolds are not a problem as no longer manufactured by Ferrari (thoughts??)

fingers crossed for good weather next week - really looking forwards to driving this thing now...

[Granucci]

Nice job.