[212Export]

Since end of may when the Daytona was bought, I’ve driven it for app. 2’000 km’s. After a 10 days break due to a broken fuel pump (actually both fuel pumps have been replaced by the seller) its time for a first impression writing and some comparing to other classic Ferraris.
Yes, the Daytona is heavier than a 330 GTC, a 250 GTE or PF coupe and definitively heavier than a 275 GTB. Personally, I have always been an advocate for lightness and nimbleness on classic Ferrari’s. Part of the reason for this preference may be the mostly “mediocre” output of engine power on these wonderful classics compared to modern cars, which we are used in everyday driving. It feels like the Daytona’s (steering) heavyness may be an issue in town traffic, parking and on narrow bends driving. I have adapted to it quiet easily. Its simply just “more work” to do. But on the other hand there are big advantages with the Daytona. Firstly and most dominantly the power output of the Daytona for a classic car is simply fantastic. This car has endless power. There is no partially abating of torque over 2’500 rpm’s upwards. For me personally its still just unbelievable how this almost 40 year old car travels with 150 km’s as quiet and comfortable as anyone may wish. (partially also because of the “long” gearing of the fifth gear). The car is absolutely stoic and calm, even at very high speeds (above 200 km’s) where any other classic Ferrari driven by me before became light or even very light and therefore rather un-secure around the front axle. Not so the Daytona. Especially also on long, fast bends the Daytona feels extremely stable once the suspension is “loaded” on one side. Driving large distances are no problem at all. On a sudden day trip, I drove the Daytona 600 km’s and exited the car as fresh as with any other modern car. No sweating (thanks to the well functioning air condition), no chiropracter’s work, just plain happy and surprised, that driving this classic car opens new dimensions. Luggage space is great, Becker radio works perfect, oil check is very simple without trying to grab the stick between hot engine parts as with all older models. (Actually no oil loss at all after 2’000km). Brakes are not as those of modern cars of course but way above the brakes of the models mentioned before. What else can you ask for on driving a beautiful Ferrari classic…I think nothing more. I’m very, very happy to have a chance to experience this great car. I’m looking very much forward to listen to Boxer’s impressions on his Daytona once he will have it in his garage.

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Hello 212Export: After the fabulous FLED 2 and your new Daytona, I figured you were quite busy. Thoroughly enjoyed your first impression report on your beautiful, yellow Daytona. I would have to agree on everything except few points. My A/C does not work and I do sweat like in a sauna (in city traffic), but I don't care. Haven't bothered to remedy the A/C. Heavy clutch and steering wheel are virtues and priviledges of Daytona, not the other way around. This final V12 Colombo engine is the consummation of the predecessors leading up to this beautiful and refined V12. The 3rd gear is simply immaculate in power and torque. Everything else about the Daytona, you have put in words so eloquently. Many of those who say they are indifferent about Daytona simply do not understand or never experienced behind the wheel treat. The racing history/pedigree and the fact that Daytona is the final front V12 Colombo engined marque should place this epoch making car as a true classic Ferrari. Looking forward to more comments and updates. Happy and safe driving. w/ smiles Jimmy

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Hello 212Export: After the fabulous FLED 2 and your new Daytona, I figured you were quite busy. Thoroughly enjoyed your first impression report on your beautiful, yellow Daytona. I would have to agree on everything except few points. My A/C does not work and I do sweat like in a sauna (in city traffic), but I don't care. Haven't bothered to remedy the A/C. Heavy clutch and steering wheel are virtues and priviledges of Daytona, not the other way around. This final V12 Colombo engine is the consummation of the predecessors leading up to this beautiful and refined V12. The 3rd gear is simply immaculate in power and torque. Everything else about the Daytona, you have put in words so eloquently. Many of those who say they are indifferent about Daytona simply do not understand or never experienced behind the wheel treat. The racing history/pedigree and the fact that Daytona is the final front V12 Colombo engined marque should place this epoch making car as a true classic Ferrari. Looking forward to more comments and updates. Happy and safe driving. w/ smiles Jimmy

Hello Jimmy! Thanks for your comment: Regarding the "virtues and priviledges" you are as always totally right. I feel the same way. I have written to you personally regarding fled 2 just shortly before it to ask for a surprise visit here in Switzerland. But obviously you have not been reachable or did not receive the message. Nevertheless we are looking forward for the next time !

[JazzyO]

A nice summary, 212Export. It is quite clear from your words why the Daytona is such a legend. It is such a different car than any of the Ferraris before or since. I have not driven a Daytona, but sometimes I think that the Daytona is a little bit like the 365BB with the engine in front. What I mean is that it is an uncompromising car, a bit heavy to work but very rewarding. Also - I think both are best at speed, and of course the engines are very similar, despite their difference in the cylinder angle. The main difference I would expect is the handling - the engine sitting behind the driver or in front, and of course the Daytona is much more practical in terms of the luggage space. Jimmy - you own both, does what I'm saying make any sense?

I find it interesting to hear your aircon is working so well. The one in my BB doesn't do anything, but the one in my GTC is working fine and is in fact much colder than I would have ever expected. I think I need to have the one in my BB reconditioned. Just like Jimmy I don't care much about using it, but it just irritates me that something mechanical in the car is not functioning.


Onno

[212Export]

Dear Onno, it makes very much sense what you say, having driven the 365 BB several times by myself. The Daytona seems to be more practical regarding luggage space and heat development in the cabin. The 365 BB is definitively more agile. The engine is equal, the transmission of the power to the rear axle is of course not. I use the air condition only if necessary but its good to know that it works when needed.

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

I must say the comparison of the said two cars are interesting, keeping in mind the similarities and differences. As Onno stated, Daytona is a legend on its own from the long lineage of front V12 Colombo engines, culminating the end and representing the final refinement of this magnificent bullet proof engine. No wonder, Daytona is so powerful and yet so reliable and refined. The qualities come alive at high revving north of 4000rpm where you truly experience the true potentials of this wonderful classic, proven V12 in races. Yet, it is hard to believe that this Daytona was meant to be a stop gap model prior to the intro of BBs. The two classics are icons of their own eras. Daytona represents more of the 60s Ferrari in design and engine layout. Meanwhile, 365GT4 BB represents the new era of the 70s with the drastic design changes and engine format of midship, flat 12 layout. It was a major paradigm shift with pressure from Lamborghini's Miura. (Can you believe that even this 365 BB is considered as very civilized and quiet when compared to Miura ???). As 212Export stated, Daytona is very comfortable for long drives, driving position is natural, spacious, and "relaxed". Meanwhile, the successor that ushered in new era 365 BB is much more cramped, tight, less headroom, hot and gives a feeling of sports car. Driving position is much lower than Daytona with large, virtually flat front windshield gives this epoch making car the unique qualities. I can't even imagine what the reactions were at the time when everyone saw this radical design and concept when 365 BB was introduced !!! The first 365 BB was the most raw, most pure in design and concept BBs. The successive 512 BB was more powerful, drivable and torque, but also heavier with more extras for comfort and less high revving thrill. The last 512BBi (not carbed, but injection) was the most drivable and comfortable, but also the heaviest with all the unecessary "comfys" IMHO. The THRILL expereience was replaced by drivability and comfort. 512 BBi is a different car even tho it looks very much like 512 BB. (You can read my comments of the three BBs in the BB thread). I am sure Boxer can chime in to make more accurate comments here. Reasons for 365 BB,...immediate successor of Daytona, ushered in new era with radical concept and design, the most pure in concept and design and the most nervous BB to drive. (Gosh, I can go on and on making comments !). The comments are not meant to be taken as which is better. Two iconic, classic Ferraris with different concepts and designs. Simply two wonderful Ferraris. Let me stop here. w/ smiles Jimmy

[212Export]

Wonderfully said, Jimmy...thank you !

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Knowing your vast knowledge and experience in classic Ferraris, I must apologize to you, 212Export first, for making such comments as if I know what I am talking about. We would all love to hear from you on your behind the wheels experiences from the past ! w/ smiles Jimmy

[Boxer]

Great discussion and insights. Fully agree with all the comments on the 365BB and hope to be able to add a viewpoint on the Daytona shortly.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

Knowing your vast knowledge and experience in classic Ferraris, I must apologize to you, 212Export first, for making such comments as if I know what I am talking about. We would all love to hear from you on your behind the wheels experiences from the past ! w/ smiles Jimmy

Dear Jimmy, do not appologize. I must honestly tell you that your assumption regarding my knowledge is really wrong!
It just happens that I owned several different classic-types in the past 10 years and I have read a couple of books..... but thats it. People like yourself, Onno and Boxer have a huge knowledge but definitively not me. You guys are able to discuss very deep inside mechanical things whereas I myself wonder what you guys talk about. In addition, mechanically, I do not know anything. It takes me for example almost an hour just to change a steering wheel on a classic (6 screws there are, I guess).
But in contrary, it would be so interesting for me to hear from you how come you have this fantastic Fiat - Abarth in your stable, how and why your stable grew to such outstanding dimensions and what are your future plans and ideas regarding your collection? How come have you learned all that mechanical knowledge on cars ? (Only if you would like to share of course?!) Many thanks in advance.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS

(Can you believe that even this 365 BB is considered as very civilized and quiet when compared to Miura ???).

I must get me one of those, then...


Onno

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by 212Export

how come you have this fantastic Fiat - Abarth in your stable

I forgot to mention - I visited the Abarth museum/workshop in Belgium during a classic Ferrari meeting organised by the Ferrari Club Netherlands on the 20th of June.

Wonderful little cars! I climbed in one of them and found to my surprise I actually fit in them. The "museum" has around 150 cars, 95% of which are for sale, and all having to do with Abarth. A lot of them are Fiat Rallye cars from the '70ies. But I saw a couple of examples of your type of car there, too, Jimmy.

I'll see if I can trace some pictures.


Onno

[Vitalone]

Wonderful expert impressions on two of my favourite tipos, the Daytona and 365BB, thank you gentlemen. I have had the privilege of viewing 212Export's Daytona and in the flesh it is magnificent, both in condition and in appearance (yellow suits her so well). Thanks to JazzyO's kind generosity I have taken the wheel of his 365BB. One of the most thrilling cars I have ever driven-the closest roadgoing missile I can imagine to a Ferrari 512S or M or Porsche 917 from the same era. The savage scream of that Boxer at 7000 rpm and beyond gives a good clue as to her different, more dramatic character to the 512BB. Regards from Papua New Guinea where funnily enough I have not seen any tipos, nor in Bangkok last week, for that matter. Here's to FLED 3!

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Vitalone

Wonderful expert impressions on two of my favourite tipos, the Daytona and 365BB, thank you gentlemen. I have had the privilege of viewing 212Export's Daytona and in the flesh it is magnificent, both in condition and in appearance (yellow suits her so well). Thanks to JazzyO's kind generosity I have taken the wheel of his 365BB. One of the most thrilling cars I have ever driven-the closest roadgoing missile I can imagine to a Ferrari 512S or M or Porsche 917 from the same era. The savage scream of that Boxer at 7000 rpm and beyond gives a good clue as to her different, more dramatic character to the 512BB. Regards from Papua New Guinea where funnily enough I have not seen any tipos, nor in Bangkok last week, for that matter. Here's to FLED 3!

Great to hear from you, Vitalone. I was thinking at you and Boxer this morning since you are travelling so often. Without trying to panic whatsoever but please be very careful with that "swineflu" thing. I received reports this morning from the Swiss health department which says that it seams to spread pretty fast and that its showing first proven resistance against our "Roche pharamaceutical Tamiflu medicament" treatment.

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by Boxer

Great discussion and insights. Fully agree with all the comments on the 365BB and hope to be able to add a viewpoint on the Daytona shortly.

Thank you for agreeing and authenticating my comments, Boxer. Your seal of approval makes my ranting to be of some susbtance ! Anxiously waiting for your comments on your new Daytona, Boxer. Safe and fun driving. w/ smiles Jimmy

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Dear Jimmy, do not appologize. I must honestly tell you that your assumption regarding my knowledge is really wrong!
It just happens that I owned several different classic-types in the past 10 years and I have read a couple of books..... but thats it. People like yourself, Onno and Boxer have a huge knowledge but definitively not me. You guys are able to discuss very deep inside mechanical things whereas I myself wonder what you guys talk about. In addition, mechanically, I do not know anything. It takes me for example almost an hour just to change a steering wheel on a classic (6 screws there are, I guess).
But in contrary, it would be so interesting for me to hear from you how come you have this fantastic Fiat - Abarth in your stable, how and why your stable grew to such outstanding dimensions and what are your future plans and ideas regarding your collection? How come have you learned all that mechanical knowledge on cars ? (Only if you would like to share of course?!) Many thanks in advance.

Thank You, 212Export. You are too kind. I am not a collector of cars. Unfortunately, when I find something that I like, I do my limited research and buy it for my own personal reasons. The problem is that I cannot (very hard) seem to let go because I buy because I like it. That's why the stock keeps growing. As for the Abarth "Double Bubble" (Abarth 750GT Zagato), this car was for sale in Australia and I just happened to find it on internet. It was love at first site. I hardly had any knowledge of the car so began to research and only after several e-mails, decided to buy. (So stupid of me). Even tho this car has only around 85HP, etc. etc., it must be one of the noisiest, hottest, smallest, yet the most FUN car to drive. It doesn't go very fast and with the short four gear ratios, this is not a cruiser. This is a hillclimb car. As stated, I simply fell in love with the looks. I am so superficial !!! Typical guy mentality. What do you do when you see a charming girl or lady ??? That's me. Full of imperfections. w/ smiles Jimmy

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

I must get me one of those, then...


Onno

Yes, Onno. I think you should get one. Miura would sooth and stir your fantasy. Miura is indeed the epitome of avante garte (spelling ?). The midmounted V12 engine is mounted sideways which must contribute to the amplified engine sound. You can see those twelve carb stacks right behind the rear glass. The visual looking in the rear mirror is very special. It is as if you are one with this beautiful, glamorous, and voluptuous beauty. (I can keep on talking about Miura !). It is as raw as you can be. How loud is the engine ? I still remember when I was driving my Dino tailing a Miura ...honestly, Miura's engine sound muffled my Dino's sound so much that I could not hear Dino !

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by Vitalone

Wonderful expert impressions on two of my favourite tipos, the Daytona and 365BB, thank you gentlemen. I have had the privilege of viewing 212Export's Daytona and in the flesh it is magnificent, both in condition and in appearance (yellow suits her so well). Thanks to JazzyO's kind generosity I have taken the wheel of his 365BB. One of the most thrilling cars I have ever driven-the closest roadgoing missile I can imagine to a Ferrari 512S or M or Porsche 917 from the same era. The savage scream of that Boxer at 7000 rpm and beyond gives a good clue as to her different, more dramatic character to the 512BB. Regards from Papua New Guinea where funnily enough I have not seen any tipos, nor in Bangkok last week, for that matter. Here's to FLED 3!

So glad you are enjoying the discussions here, Vitalone. w/ smiles Jimmy

[212Export]

Thank you Jimmy for posting these great Miura pictures. Without letting any Ferrari down but whenever is opting for a Lamborghini...it just needs to be a Miura. The car you show is extremelly well taken car of. Just look at that short gear changing stick and all those wonderful gauges above the middle tunnel...just gorgeous. The 12 "pipes" behind your back are awesome. O.k. I do not like the idea of a transversal engine but anyway even a hardcore Ferrari fan must admit that this car is something.......

[212Export]

Are the Miura's cam's chain or belt driven ?