F430 F1 pump motor NEW model - Ferrari Life
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 77 Old 08-10-2015, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
F1 pump motor NEW model

This is a new, more powerful electric motor with a specialized F1 pump adapter for manual and F1 equipped F430, F430 Challenge starting from 2006, Ferrrari Scuderia, 16M, 599GTB & GTO. It fits Magneti Marelli hydraulic gear pump head in Ferrari part # 214267, 248083, 248087. The adapter has exactly the same mounting holes as the original part (the new mounting screws are included into the kit). Electric connectors are directly fitting the F1 TCU harness: the negative, ground wire (black) should be attached to the front of the pump subframe, while the positive wire (red) connects with the harness wire connector.
Usually, the F1 system fails due to the old electric motor. The pump head itself fails very rarely, mainly if some debris, like metal shavings, gets inside with hydraulic oil. As I have described in my previous posts, the electric motor can be changed without disconnecting hydraulic lines.

This F1 pump electric motor is now available on eBay for much less than the old model:
Electric Motor for F1 Pump Ferrari Maserati part 214267, 248083, 248087

Also, it is available with the pump head:
F1 Pump Ferrari Maserati Part 214267 248083 248087 | eBay

Also, with another small adapter part this motor is the same as (Ferrari part #213264, #247223); the motor or the whole pump can be directly installed in Ferrari 575M, F1 Modena and Spider, 612 Scaglietti, Challenge Stradale, Enzo, and F430 manual 6-speed - before assembly #61702; F430 F1 shift system - before assembly #61589.

Electric Motor for F1 Pump Ferrari 360 430 Maserati Lamborghini E Gear | eBay

F1 Pump Ferrari 360 430 Maserati 213264 247223 Lamborghini E Gear 0863983 | eBay
Attached Images
       

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-10-2015 at 06:25 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 77 Old 08-13-2015, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Heat Sink 360* for NEW F1 pump and electric motor.

This optional 360* heat sink covers the whole body of this NEW F1 pump electric motor and efficiently reduces its operating temperature. As the result of lower operating temperature, this NEW F1 pump draws less current (lower Amp), as compared to old F1 pump models.

Motor: Electric Motor for F1 Pump Ferrari Maserati Part 214267 248083 248087 | eBay

Pump: F1 Pump Ferrari Maserati Part 214267 248083 248087 | eBay
Attached Images
         

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-14-2015 at 06:21 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
post #3 of 77 Old 08-16-2015, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Here is a comparison of specifications of electric motors :

OLD MOTOR : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parameter Voltage (V) Torque (Nm) RPM med Current (A)
Free Load 12 0 4100 ≤ 2.5
Normal Load 12 0.20 3880 ≤ 11.3
Max Efficiency 12 0.35 3380 ≤ 17.3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW MOTOR :------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parameter Voltage (V) Torque (Nm) RPM med Current (A)
Free Load 12 0 5310 2.7
Normal Load 12 0.45 4320 27.0
Max Efficiency 12 0.32 4614 19.8
Max Power 12 1.21 2655 67.9
Stall 12 2.42 0 133.0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new motor has double the torque / power and higher RPM.
jgelovani is offline  
 
post #4 of 77 Old 08-16-2015, 11:32 PM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,718
Garage
Jg, appreciate your F1 pump informations as my 16M had its F1 pump replaced few weeks back due to unintentional stalling and subsequent restart difficulty. Was diagnosed as F1 pump failure which was told also that this is a common issue with 430s...

From your posts, I take it that the new ones are more reliable (?) and fitting is a nonissue ? Is Ebay the only way to acquire the items ? Maybe I ought to get a set for the next time around. Would this work for 575 SA also ? Thanx in advance.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #5 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 02:31 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Lover View Post
Jg, appreciate your F1 pump informations as my 16M had its F1 pump replaced few weeks back due to unintentional stalling and subsequent restart difficulty. Was diagnosed as F1 pump failure which was told also that this is a common issue with 430s...

From your posts, I take it that the new ones are more reliable (?) and fitting is a nonissue ? Is Ebay the only way to acquire the items ? Maybe I ought to get a set for the next time around. Would this work for 575 SA also ? Thanx in advance.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Hi Jimmy,
on your 16M you has already had to replace the F1 pump ? But your car has very few km ...and is like new ... why this, your 16M it was stop in garage for long time before you bought?
Now the F1 gearbox works in correct way?

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #6 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 02:32 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgelovani View Post
Here is a comparison of specifications of electric motors :

OLD MOTOR : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parameter Voltage (V) Torque (Nm) RPM med Current (A)
Free Load 12 0 4100 ≤ 2.5
Normal Load 12 0.20 3880 ≤ 11.3
Max Efficiency 12 0.35 3380 ≤ 17.3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW MOTOR :------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parameter Voltage (V) Torque (Nm) RPM med Current (A)
Free Load 12 0 5310 2.7
Normal Load 12 0.45 4320 27.0
Max Efficiency 12 0.32 4614 19.8
Max Power 12 1.21 2655 67.9
Stall 12 2.42 0 133.0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new motor has double the torque / power and higher RPM.
Hi Jg,
interesting and nice information & work!
Best Regards
Fabio

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #7 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 03:05 AM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,718
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Jimmy,
on your 16M you has already had to replace the F1 pump ? But your car has very few km ...and is like new ... why this, your 16M it was stop in garage for long time before you bought?
Now the F1 gearbox works in correct way?
Fabio, I still have not received the car back yet due to holidays here, but the problem seemed to be the F1 pump.

I agree that the mileage was quite low when I bought her, less than 9,000 km. She ran perfectly since but few weeks back, she began to stall for no reasons and restarting was not immediate either. My friend later said that the gears did not drop properly too. The problem seemed to be the F1 pump failure to maintain adequate pressure to function properly. My friend also discovered through his network friends that 430 models are known well for the F1 pump failures too.

Probably ( I am assuming) that one of the reasons was the lack regular usage, like you said.

I would let you know how she is as soon as I get her back in the next couple of days.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #8 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 04:57 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Lover View Post
Fabio, I still have not received the car back yet due to holidays here, but the problem seemed to be the F1 pump.

I agree that the mileage was quite low when I bought her, less than 9,000 km. She ran perfectly since but few weeks back, she began to stall for no reasons and restarting was not immediate either. My friend later said that the gears did not drop properly too. The problem seemed to be the F1 pump failure to maintain adequate pressure to function properly. My friend also discovered through his network friends that 430 models are known well for the F1 pump failures too.

Probably ( I am assuming) that one of the reasons was the lack regular usage, like you said.

I would let you know how she is as soon as I get her back in the next couple of days.

w/ smiles
Jimmy
Jimmy,
yes i think a regular use of car will do the better state of function.
I come back to work today after 10 days of holiday, i went with my wife and little girl in mountain "Madonna Di Campiglio" at 1500 meters over sea level, there was a very nice sun days ... never humidity, never mosquitoes and 25 C.
Now in Cesena, near the Adriatic sea, 30 C and lot of mosquitoes..

How is the weather in Japan now?

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #9 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 09:02 AM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,718
Garage
Fabio, for someone who has yet to visit Italy, everything sounds perfect.

Weather here has not been pleasant at all. After the long rainy season of five weeks in June/July the summer has been extreme heat in the mid 30 C and high 30s inland. Heat, humidity and bugs too. Forgot to mention the typhoons which caused havocs.

Right at this moment, there are two typhoons heading this way and one may be coming our direction next week.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #10 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Lover View Post
Jg, appreciate your F1 pump informations as my 16M had its F1 pump replaced few weeks back due to unintentional stalling and subsequent restart difficulty. Was diagnosed as F1 pump failure which was told also that this is a common issue with 430s...

From your posts, I take it that the new ones are more reliable (?) and fitting is a nonissue ? Is Ebay the only way to acquire the items ? Maybe I ought to get a set for the next time around. Would this work for 575 SA also ? Thanx in advance.

w/ smiles
Jimmy
Hello,

Thank you for reviewing my post and raising important questions.

I am adding more data comparing the motors from Ferrari : 1) part 213264; 2) part 214267 (aka, 248083 and 248087); and 3) new electric motor shown in this post:

# 213264-----Voltage (V)----Torque (Nm)--Torque (Oz-In)-- RPM med--Current (A)
Free Load-------12----------------0------------------0---------------- 4100------------≤ 2.5
Normal Load----12-------------- 0.2 --------------28.3--------------3880------------≤ 11.3
Max Efficiency--12--------------0.35--------------49.6--------------3380------------≤ 17.3

#214267-----Voltage (V)----Torque (Nm) --Torque (Oz-In)-- RPM med--Current (A)
Free Load-------12--------------0 ----------------- 0.0----------------3700--------------7.0
Normal Load----12--------------0.15--------------21.2---------------3300-------------11.5
Max Efficiency--12--------------0.35--------------49.6---------------2800-------------18.0
Max Power-------12--------------0.5----------------70.8---------------2500-------------22.5

New Motor-----Voltage (V)----Torque (Nm)--Torque (Oz-In)-- RPM med--Current (A))
Free Load-------12--------------0 ------------------0.0---------------5310--------------2.7
Normal Load---12--------------0.45---------------64.0--------------4320--------------27.0
Max Efficiency-12--------------0.32---------------45.0--------------4614-------------19.8
Max Power-----12--------------1.21--------------171.7-------------2655--------------67.9
Stall---------------12--------------2.42--------------343.4--------------0----------------133.0

This new motor is equipped with universal adapter(s) that will fit any Ferrari, Maserati, and Lamborghini cars with F1 electro-hydraulic gear shift system from Magneti Marelli (including the 575M).

NOTE ! Because this new electric motor model (black body) draws more current, it should be used with at least a 50Amp fuse and F1 relay, but I recommend to use a 70Amp relay (in combination with a 50Amp fuse, which will blow before the relay can be damaged). This is the same reason to why a 50Amp fuse and relay are used with 214267 (aka, 248083 and 248087) pump motor.

Here is the eBay link to a 70Amp relay:
F1 Pump Relay 12V 70A 4 Prong Ferrari Maserati 233100 Upgrade Aftermarket | eBay
Attached Images
 

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-17-2015 at 05:33 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
post #11 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
New F1 Pump Repair Kit for Ferrari part 213264

And here is the new aftermarket F1 pump repair kit for Ferrari part #213264 for thosse who prefer a similar hydraulic pump head coupling and mounting adapter.
Electric motor: Electric Motor for F1 Pump Ferrari 360 430 Maserati Lamborghini E Gear | eBay
Whole new pump: F1 Pump Ferrari 360 430 Maserati 213264 247223 Lamborghini 0863983 Repair Kit | eBay
Attached Images
   
jgelovani is offline  
post #12 of 77 Old 08-17-2015, 09:46 PM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,718
Garage
Jg, appreciate your detailed follow ups.

To be honest, the specs beyond my head so I would discuss this with my friend to explore the possibilities.

Much appreciated.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #13 of 77 Old 08-18-2015, 02:19 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
cribbj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Houston
Ferrari Life Posts: 2,113
JG, do you happen to have the pressure/flow ratings of this pump?

It may be interesting to use for another application. Could you PM me your email address so we can discuss further?

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

Maranello Skunkworks Team Member
cribbj is offline  
post #14 of 77 Old 08-18-2015, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
JG, do you happen to have the pressure/flow ratings of this pump?

It may be interesting to use for another application. Could you PM me your email address so we can discuss further?
The pump head is the same as in the original Magneti Marelli F1 pump model so the pressure/flow ratings are the same (assuming that torque/RPM and pressure/flow relationships remain linear over the normal operation range).

Here some of the parameters you were asking about for Marelli F1 pump head:

Displacement (cm3/rev) = 0,25
Flow at 1500 rpm = 0,3 L/min
Flow at max rpm = 0,8 L/min
Pressure nominal (bar) = 200
Max rpm = 3500

I have been using this type of motor together with pump heads from Marzocchi that have larger output (i.e., 0.5 ml/rev) in R&D for racing applications and found it performing very well (as it has double the torque at the same RPM, although drawing almost double the current).

Parameters of a larger pump head I am using for racing applications (to maintain 65-90 bar operating pressures faster by shorter pumping cycles, required for more frequent shifting during racing) are shown below:

Displacement (cm3/rev) = 0,5
Flow at 1500 rpm = 0,7 L/min
Flow at max rpm = 1.6 L/min
Pressure nominal (bar) = 200
Max rpm = 3500

If you have any questions, let me know.

Kind regards,
Juri.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-18-2015 at 10:13 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
post #15 of 77 Old 08-19-2015, 02:41 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
cribbj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Houston
Ferrari Life Posts: 2,113
Thanks Juri, one of these may work very well for the application. I've sent you an email.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

Maranello Skunkworks Team Member
cribbj is offline  
post #16 of 77 Old 08-19-2015, 08:17 AM
Owner
 
Granucci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: far and away
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,174
I have no business being in this thread, and have never owned a F1 system.

Having said that I must ask the question that ponders me IF I were in this market [and remember this is nothing personal or even a detraction, but something I would be asking]

Quote:
LEGAL DISCLAMER: The seller hereby expressly disclaims all warranties, either expressed or implied warranty or merchant ability of fitness for a purpose, and neither assumes nor authorizes any other person to assume for it any liability in connection with the sale of this merchandise. Neither seller nor manufacturer shall be liable for any loss, injury or damage, direct or consequential, arising out of the use of, or the inability of product. By purchasing and using this product, the purchaser and user of this product shall assume all risk and liability whatsoever in connection thereof.
I have had, 'minor' aftermarket items that are much better than OEM in terms of OES etc.
but
On a warrantied car, I wonder what a purchaser should be considering in this major component based on non-OEM part?

can you help -- off/on -- the record.
---

THEN, based on the above, and perhaps you already have stated these items: What is the record on this item from other customers?

thanks
rik

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


Current:
Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
Granucci is offline  
post #17 of 77 Old 08-19-2015, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
I have no business being in this thread, and have never owned a F1 system.

Having said that I must ask the question that ponders me IF I were in this market [and remember this is nothing personal or even a detraction, but something I would be asking]



I have had, 'minor' aftermarket items that are much better than OEM in terms of OES etc.
but
On a warrantied car, I wonder what a purchaser should be considering in this major component based on non-OEM part?

can you help -- off/on -- the record.
---

THEN, based on the above, and perhaps you already have stated these items: What is the record on this item from other customers?

thanks
rik
Hello Rik,

I understand that some people are more skeptical and/or litigeous than others... That is why I use this standard legal disclaimer (as other aftermarket manufacturers for any other part).

You are asking for the record on this items from other customers, but please consider that this product has been just announced on this forum and other than my own R&D, I have only few of these pumps installed so far and would like to have more feedback from those who will consider installing these pumps in their cars.

Last week, one of these new F1 pumps for 430F1 (equipped with a 360* heat sink) was installed in a track car in Philippines. So far, the racing team tech is satisfied with it's performance and continues monitoring.

I hope that this answers your questions.

Kind regards,
Juri.

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-19-2015 at 07:35 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
post #18 of 77 Old 08-20-2015, 09:17 AM
Owner
 
Granucci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: far and away
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgelovani View Post
Hello Rik,

I understand that some people are more skeptical and/or litigeous than others... That is why I use this standard legal disclaimer (as other aftermarket manufacturers for any other part).

You are asking for the record on this items from other customers, but please consider that this product has been just announced on this forum and other than my own R&D, I have only few of these pumps installed so far and would like to have more feedback from those who will consider installing these pumps in their cars.

Last week, one of these new F1 pumps for 430F1 (equipped with a 360* heat sink) was installed in a track car in Philippines. So far, the racing team tech is satisfied with it's performance and continues monitoring.

I hope that this answers your questions.

Kind regards,
Juri.
Thanks

I look fwd to the continued performance reviews and truly hope it performs well. I suspect as I've known others [Dave Helms for example on his hoses] or Hill engr. to over engineer but add huge value to us that need real solutions.

Side note: Ferrari has become to me a company that overcharges for what should be a slam dunk on engineering and/or implementation, but sadly ALWAYS falls short on both which makes for a great fail IMO.

glad you are in this game.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


Current:
Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
Granucci is offline  
post #19 of 77 Old 08-20-2015, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
Thanks

I look fwd to the continued performance reviews and truly hope it performs well. I suspect as I've known others [Dave Helms for example on his hoses] or Hill engr. to over engineer but add huge value to us that need real solutions.

Side note: Ferrari has become to me a company that overcharges for what should be a slam dunk on engineering and/or implementation, but sadly ALWAYS falls short on both which makes for a great fail IMO.

glad you are in this game.
Hello,
I tend to agree with you about overpriced and sub-optimally engineered critical components and systems installed in Ferraris, because those have been subcontracted to other companies. F1 sequential gear shift system by Hydraulik Rink -> Magneti Marelli -> Ferrari is but one example...
Regards,
Juri.

Last edited by jgelovani; 08-20-2015 at 04:34 PM.
jgelovani is offline  
post #20 of 77 Old 10-15-2015, 06:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Ferrari Life Posts: 6
So, based on what I see on eBay, for a 2005 430 F1 is I want to change just the pump motor (don't want to drain the hydraulic fluid), I would need the following?

one of these : Electric Motor FOR F1 Pump Ferrari 360 430 Maserati Lamborghini E Gear | eBay

Two of these: F1 Pump Relay 12V 70A 4 Prong Ferrari Maserati 233100 Upgrade Aftermarket | eBay

and 2 - 50 amp fuses?

If ones pump is still working, will changing to the higher spec pump possibly improve shifting?

Last edited by martiy1971; 10-15-2015 at 07:04 PM.
martiy1971 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale