[pigpen]

I hope someone shed a bit of light on this . I have a 360 that is a real pain to start . I just had the injectors cleaned and all service down . when I go to start he car it will crank but wont catch and run . I have to let off the key and then start it again to get it to run . it runs rough for a few seconds but runs after that . it happens hot or cold . I was thinking that it was the fule holding pressure but iam not sure . when the car is cold enough to check with a gauge on the fuel rail it shows no pressure but thats after a few hours of the engine cooling . I dont like gas and dont want to drip any on a hot engine . any ideas would be great . I have been thinking that the fuel injectors are weeping of that the check valves in the fules tanks are bad . thanks for any help .

[StefVan]

Welcome to FerrariLife

Did you recently change the spark plugs? If you did change them, what was the reading/condition of them? The rails should hold the pressure for quite a long time. I can tell you later what's the normal pressure drop after several hours with engine stopped.

[tazandjan]

If not for the fact you just had the injectors cleaned, I would have said it is the typical Ferrari rough start problem caused by the injectors being dirty and bleeding down. A container of Techron cured that problem on my car.

How were the injectors cleaned and did you have the rough start problem before they were cleaned? It also could be something was left loosely connected after the major service. Have you had anyone check her with an SD2 to see if they can spot anything and are you getting any warning lights?

[StefVan]

Here's the info regarding the fuel rail pressure test :
At idle you should read 3.45 bar
Stop the engine. You should read a steady pressure of 2.7 bar (+/- 0.3 bar) during at least 1 hour.

Check both fuel rails and compare the values. If it comes out that the pressure is too low, you'll have to change the according fuel pump (entirely) as the integrated pressure regulator isn't available as a separated part. The pressure regulator is preset at 3.6 bar.

Let us know how it goes

[Killer58]

Taz, Do you run a bottle of Techron at regular intervals or just when needed?

[tazandjan]

David- So far, I have just added one and that did the trick. If she acts up again, will repeat. Right now I get a nice cold start that immediately has the engine idling smoothly at ~1500 rpm, followed by a smooth drop as cold start idle enrichment lessens.

[StefVan]

Terry, as Techron isn't available in Europe, I'm wondering which other brand we could trust here. There are many of them available but I don't trust them as I don't want to mess up my injectors on a 430

[Hakankuy]

I think you should check your ignition coils and MAF sensors (I supposed you ve checked your spark plugs). Personally I am betting on MAF sensors. Checking ignition coils is quite simple. You will loosen the connection of each coil and will check the result. If they are okay than MAFs will be on the table.
Sometimes also it is working to swap left and right maf sensors and resetting the car.
Typical symptom for maf sensor is engine starts to work roughly and first idles around 500-700 rpm with a very weak sound than jumps to 1500s (when it is cold).

[tazandjan]

Stef- I will send you some in exchange for a copy of your F430 WSM. How many do you want? They run about $12-15 each here for the 20 oz size.

[pigpen]

Plugs looked good , sent the injectors off to be cleaned , came back with good report . I cleaned the maf sensor and it made a little diffrence .no error codes . funny thing is if I disconnect the battery and reconnect it about 30 minuts later it starts up perfect . if I turn it off ad let it sit for a few minutes I have to press the gas pedal to get it to start .

[tazandjan]

Whenever you disconnect the battery, you need to do a run cycle to let the Motronic ECUs relearn idle settings, etc that make the car run well. If you do not, the car will eventually relearn, but it may take a while. A simple run cycle would be to use the disconnect switch, turn off the A/C and radio, and make sure the car is full cold. When cold turn the igniton to on, wait 30 seconds, and turn off for 30 seconds. Turn on and wait 30 seconds and then start the car. Let the car idle for 10 minutes with no inputs whatever to the throttle. After that, you can turn on the A/C and the radio (enter code if a Becker) and drive gently for about 20 minutes and everything should be back to normal.

Not sure it will do any good on your car, but that is what works for relearning. So many things removed and replaced on your car, no telling what the problem is without going over it with an SD2.

Incidentally, you can download a 360 workshop manual for free at ferraridatabase.com.

[JeffWilliams]

Guys,

Based on the above, how does one differentiate MAF problems vs. dirty injectors without an SD2? Would there be a CEL with MAF trouble? Curious because my car has recently developed the annoying rough start. After it's going, it's fine and restarts warm completely normally with no issues while driving.

Cheers,

Jeff