[mikegr]

I recently read on another forum from a guy that was proposed by his local dealer for a Tubi as the best option to his car. He also mentioned that he was discouraged to buy a Capristo because they are not TUV approved and there were stories of blown off rear glasses from overheating.
Now, as a Tubi dealer it is logical to support his products and i can consider his words as inacurrate until i saw this

Ferrari Modena 360 CS Burns at Spa Francorchamps - YouTube

Ofcourse a video clip itself cannot tell us enough. But it would be nice if there is someone here who can share with us a similar experience.

[Tio]

Can't really express an opinion without solid proof.
Obviously for a fire to start it could be a number of readons, from oil/fuel leak on hot exhaust
parts, to electrical short circuiting etc.
But if there was a Capristo exhaust installed on the car, the completion will obviously highlight
that fact for marketing purposes as you have suggested!

[BluNart]

Wow, not a good day for the owner. I have a theory to ponder and float out for discussion. If anyone knows the owner it would be a great lesson learned if true. In theory, while preparing for the event the owner had the engine detailed. Some service shops and professional detailers use oil based products that need to burn off all engine parts in a controlled environment (hatch open) before taking to the road. The crack in the window may explain the greater heat force towards the Capristo during this burnoff period but having a challenge grill should have ventilated while driving as designed. With so much white residue in the entire engine bay but not a complete loss of vehicle with it on fire (rubber hoses melted and on fire, etc; it started and we assume he drove home), the theory I'm proposing is the engine was detailed, bottom skid plate not removed, entire engine not wiped clean removing any pools of the oil based product, potentially to Tio's thoughts above mixed with bits of fuel, resulting in what we see in the video.
Thoughts?

[Hakankuy]

Well Capristo's known with their violent heating in engine bay. Even the first versions caused cracks in engine bay glasses of 360s .
However it has never been reported such a fire damage before.
On the other hand the starting point of the fire is the F1 pump side and most probably because of a hydaulic leaking F1 hose from pump to gearbox ther was this acident occured.
May be a few drops of F1 system hydraulic dripped on to CATs.

[BluNart]

A better theory for sure; the residue is assumed to be all random extinguisher spray but odd in some spots if a fire started only by the F1 pump.

[StefVan]

Mike, IMHO this fire has nothing to do with the Capristo muffler. On these pictures, you can clearly see that the fire damaged mainly the RHS air intake while the muffler has no signs of burns. The lower part of the RHS aire intake box is missing... The fire started clearly UNDER the air box and has nothing to do with the muffler. I suspect also the F1 hydraulic oil because when driven hard, some oil can be released by the purge valve. The RHS cat is right under it and I've seen already several times on 430's and 360's that have some burned hydraulic oil on the heat shields (including my car). As I wrote already several times, everyone should really check the RHS cat heat shield and make sure they are perfectly clean of any dust and oil.

You can change the title now as Capristo can not be blamed here

[CAPRISTO]

Just because a capristo exhaust is visible in this case does not necessary mean that it was responsible for that .

First it would be more credible if " mike" could get factual proof that our exhausts were to blame then post such a remark .

[mikegr]

Definately the a moderator may change the title of the topic, no argument about that. However as i do a daily deep research on exhaust i see a lot of different opinions.
So, when changing to free flow cats or muffler is the rising of the engine temperature certain? Or this, doesnt happen always?

[tazandjan]

Mike- Actually, free flowing cats and exhausts will lower exhaust system component temperatures. Anything that increases back-pressure will tend to increase the temperature where the restriction is located, in the muffler, or in the catalytic converters. The temperature of the gasses exiting the tailpipe may be a bit higher, but the exhaust components, and underhood temperatures, will be cooler than their higher back-pressure alternatives.

[cribbj]

Title changed to "Cause of 360 Fire?"

[mikegr]

Then why many people reporting overheating issues after installing aftermarket exhausts?

[StefVan]

Mike, some cheap aftermarket mufflers may overheat, this is true. Generally, the smaller they are, the higher the risk off overheating would be. If the aftermarket muffler doesn't contain any isolators and is just steel, no doubt, the muffler will get almost as hot as the cats. Serious manufacturers like Capristo or Tubi don't play with this.

I use all the time temperature strips in my engine bay so that I can keep an eye on the maximum reached temperatures in several areas like headers, hydraulic pump motor, muffler, heat shields, etc. The stock muffler never exceeds 170°C. I'll post a picture after my drive today.

[StefVan]

Here is picture of the temperature strip on the stock muffler. This is the maximum temperature of 166°C ever reached since 2 years.



This is the temperature reading after today's drive with an outside temperature of 32°C.



The muffler stays "cool" at 79°C especially when driving with the exhaust valves permanentely open, even when the link between cats and muffler reads 215°C (max 252°C).



This shows how efficient the muffler is because it doesn't conduct the heat. A steel only based aftermarket muffler would conduct all this heat and bring the muffler at much higher temperatures close to those at the muffler entrance exhaust link.

Just for a reference, here's the maximum reached temperature of the engine bay since approx. 2 years - 88°C :


External engine temperature : 113°C



Maximum temperature reached on the exhaust headers since 1 year : 182°C


If you carefully monitor engine bay temperatures, you can anticipate issues, e.g., there should be no temperature difference (or very few degrees) between the LHS and RHS engine banks and exhaust systems.

[mikegr]

That is interesting.I guess you have to take measurements after every run and create a databook.

[Tio]

Hi Stef, I hope you are well!

I forgot to ask you, did you also get the capristo cat insulation covers, when you got the headers?
Also do you think this might be a worthwhile addition, just for peace of mind?

[StefVan]

Hi Harry, I'm doing great, thanks. I hope you too

No, I didn't cover my stock cats with the Capristo insulation covers as I thought it wasn't really needed. The stock cats are already insulated and the avg external temperature is around 250°C. I'm not sure what would be the long term result when adding an additional layer of insulation but I don't think there would be a negative impact on the cats. My mean concern was that there is very little space around the cats to add a quite thick cover, unless you remove the stock heat shields (shield above the cats, side gearbox heat shield (F1) and axle shaft shield). On the positive side, these covers would reduce considerably the heat around the differential and gearbox and protect the sensors from the excessive heat.

If my stock cats are done, I'll consider the new Capristo cats + heat shields. But for now, at 55.000 km, my stock cats are still 100% efficient

[Tio]

Originally Posted by StefVan

Hi Harry, I'm doing great, thanks. I hope you too

No, I didn't cover my stock cats with the Capristo insulation covers as I thought it wasn't really needed. The stock cats are already insulated and the avg external temperature is around 250°C. I'm not sure what would be the long term result when adding an additional layer of insulation but I don't think there would be a negative impact on the cats. My mean concern was that there is very little space around the cats to add a quite thick cover, unless you remove the stock heat shields (shield above the cats, side gearbox heat shield (F1) and axle shaft shield). On the positive side, these covers would reduce considerably the heat around the differential and gearbox and protect the sensors from the excessive heat.

If my stock cats are done, I'll consider the new Capristo cats + heat shields. But for now, at 55.000 km, my stock cats are still 100% efficient

Wise words!

Thanks Stef!

I will do the same.
As you know, I have the stock cats back on and since then, no problems with the christmas lights!
But like you said, if the stock cats ever fail, then Capristo is the way to go!

[StefVan]

Mike, here's the story of the fire on this CS. The Capristo muffler was installed in May 2011 by his dealer. He tracked his car since and never had an issue. Then, the owner changed to a new dealer to do his service and right after, when he tracked his car, he got this fire. As you can see at 1'47 in the video, there is a high chance that his new dealer forgot the old air filter which was left in the engine bay and felt on the RHS cat and caused the fire. Morality: always check your engine bay after a service, mistakes are human but can have serious consequences

[CAPRISTO]

CAPRISTO Germany spoke with the dealer who originally installed that exhaust.

1. This car was rebuilt in May 2011 with the exhaust system,

2. Since then, the customer has been driving the car all the time without problems, even on the racetrack.

3. The customer brought the car to a new dealer for service. Shortly thereafter, he goes from the racetrack and his car catches fire.

After looking into this and inquiring about it, A dealer confirmed that the exhaust system is not to blame The exhaust is shiny and has no signs of high temperatures. it was also confirmed that one right air filter caught fire inside the air filter box.

Something MUST have happened at that dealer, because it is not possible for this particular car to catch fire like this in a spur of a moment.

It is easy to "blame" the exhaust, overlooking the other issues, particulary those pertaining to those Ferrari burning, including and specifically "human errors".

It is important to note that from May 2011, date of the rebuilt up to this incident, over a year past and this car was driven many times including on a racetrack. Should the CAPRISTO Exhaust been faulty as it was allegedly stated, the problem would have "surfaced way sooner.

It is quite interesting to see that this problem occurred right after servicing the car. It could be that too much oil was filled in during the inspection.

What happens next is simple: Under pressure, this excess of oil, with a temperature of about 120/130 degrees C. (250/270 Fahrenheit), is discharged into the air intake manifolds with the consequences this entails...

In this picture, it looks like the air filter that has been dropped on the exhaust pipes and then caught fire:

It looks like this is what happened in this case, but, the exhaust is certainly not the culprit...

[mikegr]

these horror stories make me think if i have to get rid of the 360 and by a Z06 quite earlier than i expected...