[jgelovani]

Fellow Ferraristi,

After several weeks of R&D and parts sourcing, I built a very simple-to-use robust device for for testing the status of F1 pump electric motor and for purging the F1 hydraulic system.

Using this device, one can to activate the F1 pump electric motor and measure the current (Amps) it draws. Also, one can use this device to purge the F1 hydraulic system (i.e., after changing the F1 pump) by following a simple procedure.

This device simplifies electrical diagnostics of an electro-hydraulic pump motor of sequential manual/automatic transmission systems in Ferrari 355, 575, 360, 430; Maserati Coupe, GT; Lamborghini Gallardo, Murcielago, and LP series.

This device has a 3 ft long cable equipped with an original factory electric plug that connects directly into the F1 pump electric motor connector, and a 6 ft long cable equipped with red (+) and black (-) alligator-type clamps for connection to a 12V DC battery.

[tazandjan]

Juri- My techs had figured out how to bleed the F1 system without an SD2/3, but your device would be a real time saver compared to what they were doing. Plus it gives a continuity check and F1 pump motor condition.

Any idea how much duplicating your tool would cost?

All we need now is a simple device to set PIS, and F1 owners without access to an SD2/3 will be set.

[jgelovani]

How to check if the F1 pump motor is damaged and needs to be replaced:
1) Turn off the motor and disengage the car electronic systems by turning off the ignition key.
2) Unplug Delphi-style connector from the black receptacle of the F1 pump electric motor.
3) Plug Delphi-style connector of this device directly into the black receptacle of the F1 pump electric motor.
4) Connect the black (-) and red (+) alligator-style clamps to a 12V DC battery with 7 Amp/hour power or more.
5) Press the small round button (tester mode) to activate the 30A (max) circuit tester. The circuit tester will switch off automatically after 10 seconds.
6) Press and hold the big round button of the ON-OFF switch to activate the F1 pump electric motor for no more than 5-6 seconds.

Normally, after you activate the F1 pump electric motor, the current drawn by the motor may initially exceed 20 Amps (less than 30Amps), but then it should level at no more than 20 Amps during steady operation.

NOTE! Operating the F1 pump motor for longer periods of time will result in a significant build-up of hydraulic pressure in the accumulator and system failure!

The motor should be replaced if:
a) The motor draws more than 25 Amps, even if does not blow the 30 Amp fuse in this tester unit
b) The motor blows the 30 Amp fuse in this tester unit. If this happens, remember to replace the 30Amp fuse inside the dvice.
c) The motor does not operate at all.

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Juri- My techs had figured out how to bleed the F1 system without an SD2/3, but your device would be a real time saver compared to what they were doing. Plus it gives a continuity check and F1 pump motor condition.

Any idea how much duplicating your tool would cost?

All we need now is a simple device to set PIS, and F1 owners without access to an SD2/3 will be set.

Taz - I am sure that many other techs and DIYs have figured out how to bleed the F1 system without an SD2/3 device, and you are right - I have bullt this device to simplify this task. Importantly, this device was bulit using a standard factory electrical connector that Magneti Marelli uses in their electrical harness (Delphi 630 Ducon excentric, a really hard-to-find part in US).

I have not decided about the pricing yet... The cost of parts alone is about $65-75. Moreover, it depends on how many people would like to have this device.... Any suggestions for the price?

Here is the description of the F1 hydraulic system purging procedure I developed. Any additional details and suggestions from the members of this chat on how to improve it will be appreciated:

How to purge the F1 hydraulic system:
1) Open the motor compartment lid, turn off the car motor while in neutral gear (N) and disengage the car electronic systems by turning off and removing the ignition key.
2) Unplug Delphi-style connector from the black receptacle of the F1 pump electric motor.
3) Plug Delphi-style connector of this device directly into the black receptacle of the F1 pump electric motor.
4) Connect the black (-) and red (+) alligator-style clamps to a 12V DC battery.
5) Top the hydraulic fluid reservoir shown in the picture with an appropriate hydraulic fluid.

NOTE ! While purging the hydraulic system, keep adding fluid into the reservoir to avoid aspiration of air into the system. Ferrari recommends Shell DONAX TX (G-34077), which is based on Shell XHVI synthetic base fluid and matches specifications of Dexron III/Mercon and Allison C-4 transmission fluids. You can use TUTELA CS, Shell Formula ATF, or in an emergency situation any Dexron III/Mercon transmission fluid instead.

6) Place clear plastic tubing onto the tip of the purge valve (number 2 in the picture) to divert the hydraulic fluid back into the reservoir shown in step 1.
7) Open the top purge valve (2) shown in the picture below.
8) Activate the pump motor by pressing the ON-OFF button of the tester. Observe if there are air bubbles traveling through the plastic tube. Keep adding hydraulic fluid into reservoir to avoid air aspiration into the system while purging. Continue purging the system through this valve using multiple 10-20 second purge intervals until no more air bubbles are detectable.
9) Close the purge valve number 2, but don’t disconnect the clear tubing yet (you will still need it).
10) Place clear plastic tubing onto the tip of the other purge valve located on the transmission case (number 1 in the picture) to divert the hydraulic fluid back into the reservoir shown in step 1.
11) Open the lower purge valve (1) shown in the picture below.
12) Activate the pump motor by pressing the ON-OFF button of the tester. Observe if there are air bubbles traveling through the plastic tube. Keep adding hydraulic fluid into reservoir to avoid air aspiration into the system while purging. Continue purging the system through this valve using multiple 10-20 second purge intervals until no more air bubbles are detectable.
13) Close the lower purge valve (1), but don’t disconnect the clear tubing yet (you will still need it).
14) Disconnect the device cable from the electric motor connector and reconnect the motor back to the car electric harness.
15) Turn on the engine. Observe the status of transmission warning light. If the transmission light is not lit on, then move to the next step.
16) Switch into the rear gear “R” and turn off the engine while in rear gear “R”, turn off the key.
17) Go to Step 7 and repeat all steps including step 15, but not step 16.
18) Switch into the 2nd gear and turn off the engine while in the 2nd rear gear, turn off the key.
19) Repeat these procedures for 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th gears by going back to Step 7 and repeating all the necessary steps.
Note! TCUs of older Ferrari 360 models will not shift higher than 2nd gear when the car is standing still and is actually not moving (when not driving).
20) Remove plastic tubing for hydraulic fluid return into the reservoir.
21) Check the hydraulic fluid level in the reservoir. Make sure that is is at the recommended level on the dipstick protruding from the cap.
NOTE! Do not overfill the reservoir before driving! Otherwise, the hydraulic fluid will overflow and leak on the exhaust and other hot parts, causing fumes and smoke. Use a large pipette (i.e., similar to that used in the kitchen to aspirate juices from a pan and pour over the meat or turkey) to remove excess fluid from reservoir.
22) Drive the car for a 20-30 min; observe the behavior of hydraulic transmission.
23) Repeat the whole cycle couple of times to make sure that there is no air left in the system.

[Anders T]

I am on. Would be great to have. Have just bought a new pump / alloy connector and would like to change it all. Let me know a fair price.

Regards

[tazandjan]

Juri- Considering the amount of time this might save some pros, a price of $250-300 would probably be easily justified.

More scary if amateurs use it because you can see someone burning out their pump motor by leaving it on too long. Making it idiot proof would be tougher.

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Juri- Considering the amount of time this might save some pros, a price of $250-300 would probably be easily justified.

More scary if amateurs use it because you can see someone burning out their pump motor by leaving it on too long. Making it idiot proof would be tougher.

Taz, thank you for suggesting the price range of $250-300, which I also think is quite reasonable. Therefore, I will consider reproducing this device for $275 (the mid-price).

As you said, making this device "idiot-proof" is tougher... Introducing another time limiter onto the master ON-OFF switch will require a more complicated electronic design of the system, which will drive the price higher... I'd rather keep the system design simple and affordable.

To prevent burning the motor or blowing up the hydraulic system, before checking the amperage drawn by he motor, one should install onto the bleeding valve a return tubing (to the hydraulic fluid reservoir) and open the valve to prevent pressure buildup in the system. I can add the clear tubing into the "kit" along with with detailed operating instructions and warning notes. Hopefully, following a set of simple instructions, nobody will fry their pump motors or blow up the hydraulic pressure accumulator...

[tazandjan]

Juri- I agree with you. Just need to put a big warning in the instructions. Price seems fair. We found a tensiometer for $249, so this fits right in there.

[Granucci]

Are there not programmable or time delay switches/buttons that can be employed? Some are quite simple. Simple searches showed many that even look like yours.

Electronic Time Delay Switch, Push button operation; Time Lag [INFRASCA] : Sparks Direct, Lighting and Electrical Wholesaler albeit this lasts too long

http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/relaytim2.asp a circuit and calculating the circuit time [2sec + --> n ]

[tazandjan]

Rik- I bought one from Juri today.

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by Granucci

Are there not programmable or time delay switches/buttons that can be employed? Some are quite simple. Simple searches showed many that even look like yours.

Electronic Time Delay Switch, Push button operation; Time Lag [INFRASCA] : Sparks Direct, Lighting and Electrical Wholesaler albeit this lasts too long

Time Delay Relay II a circuit and calculating the circuit time [2sec + --> n ]

Thank you for suggestion. I will certainly consider it.
One could also use a 12V time delay relay, such as this one:
http://www.alliedelec.com/images/pro...C/70200199.pdf
but I have not found one that could directly operate with the current up to 40 Amps, but it can be used to open and close another SPDT-type 12V 40Amp relay. There are several solutions to this, of course...

Juri

[tazandjan]

Juri has these for sale on E-Bay right now. Mine has already been shipped. My techs will get a lot of use out of it.

Now all we need is a simple tool that will let us set PIS.

F1 Pump Ferrari Maserati E-Gear Pump Lamborghini Testing & Operating Device | eBay

[Brian]

That does not bleed the system. It only bleeds the clutch.


That is like brushing your front teeth and ignoring the rest.

[tazandjan]

Brian- Right now I cannot even brush my front teeth, so it is progress. You are saying it does not bleed the individual F1 selector lines?

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by Brian

That does not bleed the system. It only bleeds the clutch.


That is like brushing your front teeth and ignoring the rest.

The procedure I described in previous posts has been sucessfully implemented on several 360s. The procedure emulates steps that an SD2 system does via engaging the F1 TCU. For those who have doubts, I recommend reviewing section D3.04 of 360F1 Gearbox Manual.

Clutch is bled through the drainage union #6, valve #9 (see the attached figure) located on the transmission box, while adding hydraulic fluid into the Clutch/brake fluid reservoir #2. In the photo of that union, the valve is indicated as #1. Clutch hydraulics does not require any electrical devices for bleeding and has little to do with bleeding the hydraulic gear actuator side of the F1 system...

[StefVan]

We all know how to bleed the clutch hydraulic brake fluid, but then why did you added this in your own steps as it has nothing to do with the F1 hydraulics:

11) Open the lower purge valve (1) shown in the picture below.
12) Activate the pump motor by pressing the ON-OFF button of the tester. Observe if there are air bubbles traveling through the plastic tube. Keep adding hydraulic fluid into reservoir to avoid air aspiration into the system while purging. Continue purging the system through this valve using multiple 10-20 second purge intervals until no more air bubbles are detectable.
13) Close the lower purge valve (1), but don’t disconnect the clear tubing yet (you will still need it).

[StefVan]

Originally Posted by jgelovani

This device simplifies electrical diagnostics of an electro-hydraulic pump motor of sequential manual/automatic transmission systems in Ferrari 355, 575, 360, 430; Maserati Coupe, GT; Lamborghini Gallardo, Murcielago, and LP series.

At least on the F430, I'm afraid this unit will not be helpfull for bleeding the F1/E-diff hydraulics. This won't work. The bleeding procedure on the SD3 does well more than just running the F1 hydraulic motor. I wouldn't advice anyone to try this on the F430. I've tested that already some years ago and tried to bleed the E-Diff without the SD3 and just by running the F1 hydraulic motor. We ended up having an E-Diff Error. Then, I put my hands on my friend's SD3 and discovered that the bleeding procedure gives also orders to the ECU's to actuate different hydraulic valves.

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by StefVan

At least on the F430, I'm afraid this unit will not be helpfull for bleeding the F1/E-diff hydraulics. This won't work. The bleeding procedure on the SD3 does well more than just running the F1 hydraulic motor. I wouldn't advice anyone to try this on the F430. I've tested that already some years ago and tried to bleed the E-Diff without the SD3 and just by running the F1 hydraulic motor. We ended up having an E-Diff Error. Then, I put my hands on my friend's SD3 and discovered that the bleeding procedure gives also orders to the ECU's to actuate different hydraulic valves.

During the purging program, an SD3 progressively switches gears to make sure that hydraulic fluid passess through all individual EV lines, with corresponding solenoid valves in open/closed positions. One can achieve this by switching gears, as described in the procedure above, which certainly works for 360F1.

[jgelovani]

Originally Posted by StefVan

We all know how to bleed the clutch hydraulic brake fluid, but then why did you added this in your own steps as it has nothing to do with the F1 hydraulics:

11) Open the lower purge valve (1) shown in the picture below.
12) Activate the pump motor by pressing the ON-OFF button of the tester. Observe if there are air bubbles traveling through the plastic tube. Keep adding hydraulic fluid into reservoir to avoid air aspiration into the system while purging. Continue purging the system through this valve using multiple 10-20 second purge intervals until no more air bubbles are detectable.
13) Close the lower purge valve (1), but don’t disconnect the clear tubing yet (you will still need it).

You are right, this step may not be absolutely necessary, but I recommend it to make sure that there are no air bubbles trapped in the lines proximal to the coupling unit. As you well know, these lines are responsible for clutch operation in coordination with the F1 gear chaniging hydraulics. This step is required as described in Ferrari 360 Gearbox Manual:

"Electronically Controlled gerabox, Clutch Bleding (section D3.04)

In the system, as well as the union (1) on the gearbox (see mechanical gearbox), there is also a second union (2) on the block for the clutch pipe rapid coupling, located in position with the right-hand rear fastening point of the gearbox support frame.

1) Connect the SD-2 system to the diagnosis plug-in ( L 2.12).
2) Choose "Diagnosis" from the main menu.
3) Choose "CLUTCH DRAINING" from the "DIAGNOSIS" menu.
4) Add oil into the tank to prevent the oil level from runninn low.
5) Press "ENTER" to activate the tester.
6) Open the clutch draining union and wait 3÷4 seconds to let the oil flow out.
7) Close the draining union once again.
8) Top up the oil level in the tank.
9) Repeat procedures 6-7-8 two or three times, on both draining unions.
10) Once the operation has been completed, tighten the unions to the prescribed torque.

11) Wait for the tester to exit the draining procedure and to display the related positive result.
12) Shift gears a couple of times and top-up the level.

Step 9 (above) in clutch line bleeding procedure indicates that this procedure involves "both draining unions". Therefore, when bleeding the F1 system, I do the same.

Then, of course, there is another procedure for Gearbox Actuator Draining, to make sure that there is no air there, which requires unscrewing the draining screws opposite to banjo couplings of individual EV lines on the actuator... Those who really know the F1 system will know how do this as well.

[StefVan]

Originally Posted by jgelovani

You are right, this step may not be absolutely necessary, but I recommend it to make sure that there are no air bubbles trapped in the lines proximal to the coupling unit. As you well know, these lines are responsible for clutch operation in coordination with the F1 gear chaniging hydraulics.

Sure it is important to check and drain the clutch lines but in your steps, you mentionned to put the clear plastic tubing on valve #1 to divert the hydraulic fluid into to the F1 hydraulic tank.

10) Place clear plastic tubing onto the tip of the other purge valve located on the transmission case (number 1 in the picture) to divert the hydraulic fluid back into the reservoir shown in step 1.


By diverting the fluid back to the F1 hydraulic tank, I'm afraid that here you're mixing brake fluid used by the clutch system with F1 hydraulic fluid? Also, when bleeding the clutch, one should check that there is enough brake fluid in the brake tank.

Besides that, the Deplhi Ducon 6.3mm female connector is a good find. It took me a while to get these connectors. But these hydraulic motors are quite reliable at least on the F430. I never measured a current higher than
14A on a stock 2005 F430 motor (manual). On a F1, this motor drains a couple of Amp's more.