[Boxer]

I have been looking at 550 Barchettas again. Pricing for Euro LHD is 30% more than UK RHD.

Do you think this will hold ?

Is it worth the premium to get a LHD ?

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by Boxer

I have been looking at 550 Barchettas again. Pricing for Euro LHD is 30% more than UK RHD.

Do you think this will hold ?

Is it worth the premium to get a LHD ?

That's a substantial margin difference, Boxer. My 2 cents tell me that LHD inevitably has a larger market to appeal to, thus the descrepancy ? w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

it's more than that, Jimmy. The UK market has collapsed much more than the market on the continent. London has been hit very hard and consequently a lot of Ferraris have come onto the market. If you then add the drop of the GBP (40% in 2 years) against the euro, then it becomes clear why the UK prices are so much lower.

Personally, I believe that the pound will recover again in a few year's time, and this makes buying a UK classic a very tempting proposition. I'm very happy I bought my Boxer there as I believe it to be a wise investment, should I ever sell it (no plans yet). This obviously only works if you pay for the car in euros or dollars.

To illustrate what has happened to UK prices: I bought my Boxer in September 2008 and paid €99,600. If I had bought it now for the same amount of pounds, I would pay €90,000. That's almost a 10% drop in 6 months. The market value in GBP has also dropped, so today I would not pay more than 70k, which would equate to €78,750.

In the meantime, you cannot buy a LHD 365 Boxer for less than €100k, and a good one should still fetch €120k. So now we are looking at €79k versus €120k!!! The only reason for this discrepancy is that the UK market is RHD and therefore stands on its own.

Boxer - regarding LHD and RHD I would say that the LHD is worth the premium if you drive it (almost) exclusively on the continent. If not, then I think that buying a RHD in 2009 is a very wise thing to do. There are only a couple of them, and as mentioned, I believe the UK will recover in a couple of years and you should be able to sell it on for a nice premium.

If you're looking for a real steal, I'd hold off buying for a little while as this recession is still going to hit harder in a month or so. When it does, I think the panicking will really start - people thought we were getting out of it, but we're just in the eye of the hurricane. We're in for a crazy summer, I think.


Onno

[JazzyO]

Boxer, at the RM auction in Maranello a 550 Barchetta is offered without reserve. Might be interesting?


Onno

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Boxer, at the RM auction in Maranello a 550 Barchetta is offered without reserve. Might be interesting?

Onno

I have taken a look at it. I will not be able to make it to the auction so bidding by phone will be difficult. Also if you assume it will go for at least the minimum amount in the guide range, it is still a large premium vs. UK RHD. However the RM car does look to be a very nice example.

Ferrari 550 Barchetta
Chassis: 124254Estimate:€130.000-€150.000AUCTION DATE:To be auctioned on
Sunday, May 17, 2009OFFERED WITHOUT RESERVE485 bhp, 5,474 cc four overhead cam, four valve per cylinder alloy V-12 engine, six-speed manual transmission, four-wheel independent suspension with transverse parallelogram structure and triangular arms, electronically controlled aluminium gas dampers with coaxial coil springs and anti-roll bar, four-wheel Brembo ventilated disc brakes with ABS. Wheelbase: 2,500 mm (98.4 in.)

Introduced in 1996, the 550 Maranello was positioned as the company’s flagship model, replacing the outgoing F512 M and heralding the spectacular return of the front-engine V-12 coupé not seen since the days of the legendary 365 GTB 4 (Daytona). In 2000, the striking Barchetta (“little boat”) Pininfarina variant was released, recalling the iconic Touring-bodied, race-winning 166 MM of years past. With a limited production run of just 448 cars, the 550 Barchetta is undoubtedly one of the most desirable and attractively styled Ferraris of the modern era.

This particular example is the 276th built, imported new into Germany through Ferrari Deutschland of Wiesbaden in the autumn of 2001 and supplied to Eberlein Automobile GmbH, the franchised dealer in Kassel. Finished in classic Rosso Corsa with a black leather interior with red stitching, 124254 was sold on 13 October 2001 to its first owner, Wolfgang Blum of Karlsruhe.

Blum, a long-time Ferrari enthusiast and member of the German Ferrari club, only drove it for about 300 kms on dealer plates. On 5 July 2002 he sold the car with a recorded mileage of only 500 kms via Eberlein Automobile to the second and current owner, a very successful lamp and light bulb manufacturer from the Limburg area near Frankfurt.

The vendor covered about 6,400 kms, mainly during trips to Ferrari events in Germany and on several holiday trips to Italy. In October 2007, the authorised dealer Zender Exklusiv-Auto of Mülheim-Kärlich performed an extensive service and changed the cam belt. Now with a total mileage of 6,950 kms, 550 Barchetta Pininfarina #124254 is literally as new, both visually and mechanically, and comes with all of its original books and accessories: two helmets for driver and passenger, colour-coded to the car, and an all-weather emergency top. Offered without reserve, this Ferrari 550 Barchetta Pininfarina is destined to be a classic, what with its gorgeous styling, front-mounted V-12 engine and very limited production – an opportunity not to be missed.

[archiegibbs]

Regarding the UK economy, Onno is spot on, Sterling is still very week, but it will pick up again over the next couple of years. It has averaged 1.10 against the Euro this year, whereas it had been averaging mid 1.40's from 2001 to early 2008. The real trick would be to locate a LHD 550 Barchetta in the UK and buy it by transferring Euro's into Sterling.
A couple of years ago the UK was flooded with LHD Ferrari's and Porsches that couldn't be given away, now you can't find them for love nor money.
As a barchetta is a car meant for a warmer climate, given it's lack of a proper roof, I think you'd be better of with LHD.


Onno, you said that you think it is going to get worse over the summer. What do you know?

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by archiegibbs

Onno, you said that you think it is going to get worse over the summer. What do you know?

We've had the worst drop in economy since Adam Smith, and immediately after we've had the best rally for decades in the first quarter of 2009. Does not make sense to me to continue. It is just not likely to just bounce back like nothing happened. Much more likely is that we see growth stall and already bludgeoned investors will panic. The first signs of this are already apparent - gold is rising, the DOW and other indexes are falling for the first time in several months. I think we're in for another low before we get out of it, and recovery will be slower next time 'round.

Just my $0.02


Onno

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

We've had the worst drop in economy since Adam Smith, and immediately after we've had the best rally for decades in the first quarter of 2009. Does not make sense to me to continue. It is just not likely to just bounce back like nothing happened. Much more likely is that we see growth stall and already bludgeoned investors will panic. The first signs of this are already apparent - gold is rising, the DOW and other indexes are falling for the first time in several months. I think we're in for another low before we get out of it, and recovery will be slower next time 'round.

Just my $0.02


Onno

+1, the fundamentals are all still very weak. The Ferrari market recently has been propped up by bargain hunters and 2008 bonus money paid out in Q1. Right now we are seeing announcements on all sorts of tax hikes (Brown just pushed through an enormous communist type jump in the top rate from 40%-50%) which are certainly not going to help generate additional consumer spending.

The RM auction will generate some impressive sales numbers for very rare Ferraris but this does not reflect what is going on with 456 GTs, 550s, 360s, 430s etc.

Net net, on a 550 Barchetta, no rush at all (following 212Exports example on the F50).

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Boxer

(Brown just pushed through an enormous communist type jump in the top rate from 40%-50%)

Great timing - I'm about to move there!


Onno

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Great timing - I'm about to move there!


Onno

Obama is about to do the same in the US

On the UK, good news is he should be voted out of office next year.

Which would indicate that the GBP should start to recover in late 2010 / early 2011.

[Boxer]

I just rechecked UK RHD pricing vs the RM Auction car and the the gap vs the lower guide price is still quite significant. When you add in commision etc, it is hard to make the numbers work.

[archiegibbs]

Originally Posted by Boxer

Obama is about to do the same in the US

On the UK, good news is he should be voted out of office next year.

Which would indicate that the GBP should start to recover in late 2010 / early 2011.

It would be nice if the Conservatives reversed the recent tax hikes (and all the stealth taxes on pension funds) but I think they will inherit so much national debt that tax cuts will be a few years away yet.

I think that Sterling will get back to 1.30 - 1.40 vs the Euro within a couple of years, so now is the time to transfer Euros to Sterling and pick up any bargains.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by archiegibbs

It would be nice if the Conservatives reversed the recent tax hikes (and all the stealth taxes on pension funds) but I think they will inherit so much national debt that tax cuts will be a few years away yet.

I think that Sterling will get back to 1.30 - 1.40 vs the Euro within a couple of years, so now is the time to transfer Euros to Sterling and pick up any bargains.

Archie be careful with speculating in favor of the pound. Yes, it has depreciated already a lot against the Euro, even 10% more against the Swiss Franc. But there are strong fundamental reasons for the weakness of the pound. Also you have the technical trend against the pound AND I strongly believe that the english politicians and the Bank of England do want a weak pound to let the economy recoup faster and stronger (as english productivity gains are rather small these days).

[limotek]

Originally Posted by Boxer

I have been looking at 550 Barchettas again. Pricing for Euro LHD is 30% more than UK RHD.

Do you think this will hold ?

Is it worth the premium to get a LHD ?

I would look in to the rhd as they will cost allot less on insurance.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by limotek

I would look in to the rhd as they will cost allot less on insurance.

For you, perhaps. It depends on how many cars you have, where you store them, how many miles you drive in that particular car or your collection combined, whether you're a foreigner in that country, whether you're a permanent resident in that country, what international trips you do with the car, how long the car is abroad or not, what kind of claims you've put in in the past, etc, etc, etc, etc.

For people with a Ferrari collection spread over several countries, this argument is fairly irrelevant. Even I, with my modest collection of 2 Ferraris, wouldn't think twice about this. It costs what it costs.


Onno

[archiegibbs]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Archie be careful with speculating in favor of the pound. Yes, it has depreciated already a lot against the Euro, even 10% more against the Swiss Franc. But there are strong fundamental reasons for the weakness of the pound. Also you have the technical trend against the pound AND I strongly believe that the english politicians and the Bank of England do want a weak pound to let the economy recoup faster and stronger (as english productivity gains are rather small these days).

I agree with what you are saying, and at the moment it does help British exporters. However, as the economy recovers and we start importing more good from overseas a week pound will hurt us as foreign made goods will be come more expensive and start to cause high inflation. Sooner or later the Bank of England will have to increase interest rates, that in turn should attract more sterling investors and in turn lead to a rise in the pound.

However, we are in unchartered territory, so who knows what will happen???

[212Export]

+1, I myself definitively do not know what will happen...

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

For you, perhaps. It depends on how many cars you have, where you store them, how many miles you drive in that particular car or your collection combined, whether you're a foreigner in that country, whether you're a permanent resident in that country, what international trips you do with the car, how long the car is abroad or not, what kind of claims you've put in in the past, etc, etc, etc, etc.

For people with a Ferrari collection spread over several countries, this argument is fairly irrelevant. Even I, with my modest collection of 2 Ferraris, wouldn't think twice about this. It costs what it costs.


Onno

+1 on the insurance. My experience is that it is the value of the car that drives the premium cost, not which side the steering wheel is one,