2002 575 offered without reserve in Arizona - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 46 Old 01-11-2017, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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2002 575 offered without reserve in Arizona

I just went through the list of cars that will be offered by RM Sotheby's at their upcoming auction in Arizona on Jan 19-20, and see that they have a 575 listed (see attached) with an estimated sale price of US$200,000 to US$250,000 which seems quite high considering today's market. Then I noticed that the car has only 251 km on it since new! Unbelievable! So basically this means that car was ordered or taken off the lot and put right into a garage since 2002! I wonder how well a car like that would run after 15 years stationary (?), but then it leads more credence to the estimate because investors love a low mileage Ferrari. What are your thoughts?
Clyde
P.S. Incidentally the car is offered without reserve so it may go way below the estimate, or not...
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post #2 of 46 Old 01-11-2017, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
I just went through the list of cars that will be offered by RM Sotheby's at their upcoming auction in Arizona on Jan 19-20, and see that they have a 575 listed (see attached) with an estimated sale price of US$200,000 to US$250,000 which seems quite high considering today's market. Then I noticed that the car has only 251 km on it since new! Unbelievable! So basically this means that car was ordered or taken off the lot and put right into a garage since 2002! I wonder how well a car like that would run after 15 years stationary (?), but then it leads more credence to the estimate because investors love a low mileage Ferrari. What are your thoughts?
Clyde
P.S. Incidentally the car is offered without reserve so it may go way below the estimate, or not...
Ciao Clyde,
First of all I "not understand the car collector's mind", i not tell that is wrong, only I not understand, but if I assume this hypotesis true, then is all logical and clear .....
I not would like to destroy my Ferrari putting on her too many km, but I not also want to see her without enjoying her!
With my thinking (probably the collector's not understand me ....) i would like to drive regulary my Ferrari putting on her a few quantity of km, obviously need maintenance but in this way (for me) the car become old in better way, without the problems that have the cars that was stopped for many years ( water rubber pipes, brake flex hoses, brake calipers exc..).

I have a friend of Modena that purchased a red 575F1 on 2002 and now have 500 Km!!!
He is rich and have more cars ...

Fabio

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post #3 of 46 Old 01-11-2017, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fiammenghi Engineering View Post
Ciao Clyde,
First of all I "not understand the car collector's mind", i not tell that is wrong, only I not understand, but if I assume this hypotesis true, then is all logical and clear .....
I not would like to destroy my Ferrari putting on her too many km, but I not also want to see her without enjoying her!
With my thinking (probably the collector's not understand me ....) i would like to drive regulary my Ferrari putting on her a few quantity of km, obviously need maintenance but in this way (for me) the car become old in better way, without the problems that have the cars that was stopped for many years ( water rubber pipes, brake flex hoses, brake calipers exc..).

I have a friend of Modena that purchased a red 575F1 on 2002 and now have 500 Km!!!
He is rich and have more cars ...

Fabio
I am like you Fabio, I want to enjoy the car and to drive it. Of course I am not in such a position so its hard for me to speculate, but even if I was very rich and an investor, I don't think I would want to purchase a car just to let it sit in the garage year after year and allow it to deteriorate that way even if such a low mileage car might be in demand. I would want to drive it sometimes, even if I have many cars.
Your rich friend in Modena seems to be the type of buyer/investor who would want a car like this one, to me a 2002 575F1 with only 500 km on it seems crazy, not really better than the one with only 251 km on it for sale in the auction. Why keep this beautiful and capable mechanical device, a piece of history and automotive passion, if you are just going to let it sit and rot?
Maybe hopefully in the future the thinking of investors will change and those cars which are driven and well maintained will start to be more recognized and thought of as better investments than those which sit in the garage and don't move year after year.
Clyde
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post #4 of 46 Old 01-13-2017, 12:18 AM
 
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Even if he gets top dollar for it, that was a very poor "investment".

It's a shame the car wasn't enjoyed but I'm assuming the owner has a large collection.
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post #5 of 46 Old 01-13-2017, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
I just went through the list of cars that will be offered by RM Sotheby's at their upcoming auction in Arizona on Jan 19-20, and see that they have a 575 listed (see attached) with an estimated sale price of US$200,000 to US$250,000 which seems quite high considering today's market. Then I noticed that the car has only 251 km on it since new! Unbelievable! So basically this means that car was ordered or taken off the lot and put right into a garage since 2002! I wonder how well a car like that would run after 15 years stationary (?), but then it leads more credence to the estimate because investors love a low mileage Ferrari. What are your thoughts?
Clyde
P.S. Incidentally the car is offered without reserve so it may go way below the estimate, or not...
Clyde and all, David Gooding's Scottsdale catalog offers a nero/beige 2002 575M F1, 19" composite wheels, shields, no mention of FHP, with a more normal mileage of 11,800, 2015 major service by Ferrari/Denver est ser# 129484 at an estimate of $180K-$240K, even more unusually high given our recent market. Also at Gooding, a 2002 575M 6-speed three-pedal, titanio grigio/rosso, standard wheels, no FHP (not available in 2002) with 16,500 miles estimated at $350K-$425K. This latter car was sold new by Ferrari New England and I believe is the 6-speed that I was talking with FNE about buying when I discovered my present 575M in the paint/leather that I most wanted, blu Tour de France/cuoio, and bought it despite its F1 transaxle, my present car. Remain delighted with my choice.

Will be very interesting indeed to see if the market on 575's really has begin to recognize the extraordinary value these cars deliver in comparison to much of the rest of the Ferrari market, putting aside the much rarer pre-1969 cars.

Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

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post #6 of 46 Old 01-13-2017, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
Clyde and all, David Gooding's Scottsdale catalog offers a nero/beige 2002 575M F1, 19" composite wheels, shields, no mention of FHP, with a more normal mileage of 11,800, 2015 major service by Ferrari/Denver est ser# 129484 at an estimate of $180K-$240K, even more unusually high given our recent market. Will be very interesting indeed to see if the market on 575's really has begin to recognize the extraordinary value these cars deliver in comparison to much of the rest of the Ferrari market, putting aside the much rarer pre-1969 cars.
Ciao Seth,
interesting observation .....

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post #7 of 46 Old 01-13-2017, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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It's too late for me


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post #8 of 46 Old 01-13-2017, 11:04 AM
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Ciao Seth,
interesting observation .....
Ciao Fabio, very beautiful pipes!

Last month I started a thread that has gotten little attention so I repeat the information for you here:

For maybe sixty years, since reading about Stirling Moss' sensational victory in a Mercedes-Benz 300SLR in the 1955 Mille Miglia and especially after the original race was cancelled following deadly accident in 1957 because too dangerous and the retrospective rally begun, I've had a fantasy dream of doing the Mille Miglia retrospective. Last month a friend and I purchased a Triumph TR2, actually the 1954 factory press car, fully restored and rally-prepared, and filed our application for entry to the 2017 Mille Miglia. You may already know that two factory TR2's entered and finished both the 1954 and 1955 races, so we hope that our possibility to be accepted and run are fairly good. I'm so excited about this that some nights I cannot fall asleep and lie there dreaming of driving down the starting ramp in Brescia. Perhaps, Fabio, it will be an opportunity for us to meet. I hope so!

Here's the url of the website listing for the TR2:

http://www.premiumclassiccars.com/mi...any-press-car/

Seth
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post #9 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Clyde and all, David Gooding's Scottsdale catalog offers a nero/beige 2002 575M F1, 19" composite wheels, shields, no mention of FHP, with a more normal mileage of 11,800, 2015 major service by Ferrari/Denver est ser# 129484 at an estimate of $180K-$240K, even more unusually high given our recent market. Also at Gooding, a 2002 575M 6-speed three-pedal, titanio grigio/rosso, standard wheels, no FHP (not available in 2002) with 16,500 miles estimated at $350K-$425K. This latter car was sold new by Ferrari New England and I believe is the 6-speed that I was talking with FNE about buying when I discovered my present 575M in the paint/leather that I most wanted, blu Tour de France/cuoio, and bought it despite its F1 transaxle, my present car. Remain delighted with my choice.

Will be very interesting indeed to see if the market on 575's really has begin to recognize the extraordinary value these cars deliver in comparison to much of the rest of the Ferrari market, putting aside the much rarer pre-1969 cars.


The next time I buy a 575, and there will be a next time, it will be a 3 pedal.
Clyde


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post #10 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 06:38 AM
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The next time I buy a 575, and there will be a next time, it will be a 3 pedal.
Clyde


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Ciao Clyde,
hahaha... you make me lot of smiles ....
I'm different, the next time that i will buy a 575 ....? never be because i hope to neve sell my HGTC .... too nice for my taste ...

For now you will enjoy your wonderful 430 ...

Fabio

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post #11 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Clyde and all, David Gooding's Scottsdale catalog offers a nero/beige 2002 575M F1, 19" composite wheels, shields, no mention of FHP, with a more normal mileage of 11,800, 2015 major service by Ferrari/Denver est ser# 129484 at an estimate of $180K-$240K, even more unusually high given our recent market. Also at Gooding, a 2002 575M 6-speed three-pedal, titanio grigio/rosso, standard wheels, no FHP (not available in 2002) with 16,500 miles estimated at $350K-$425K. This latter car was sold new by Ferrari New England and I believe is the 6-speed that I was talking with FNE about buying when I discovered my present 575M in the paint/leather that I most wanted, blu Tour de France/cuoio, and bought it despite its F1 transaxle, my present car. Remain delighted with my choice.

Will be very interesting indeed to see if the market on 575's really has begin to recognize the extraordinary value these cars deliver in comparison to much of the rest of the Ferrari market, putting aside the much rarer pre-1969 cars.
Seth,

Interesting to note that the 2002 575M F1 at Gooding sold for US$159,000, a very good price. It was low mileage after all and it looked like it was in pristine condition, with carbon fibre back racing seats, original books, and some luggage. 2002 Ferrari 575M | Gooding & Company
The other 575M at Gooding (also a 2002), the 3-pedal, sold for US$308,000, reflecting the rarity of the 3 pedal 575s. The Grigio Titanio exterior looks beautiful but I am not a fan of the rosso interior in this case. Anyway it seems like the sale was in keeping with previous 3-pedal 575Ms of late, which seems to be down from the high of a few years ago. 2002 Ferrari 575M | Gooding & Company

Clyde
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post #12 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Mecum Auctions on Feb 17/18 will have this 2004 575M F1, but I have to say that though I like the beautiful red exterior I am not a fan at all of the black and red interior. https://www.mecum.com/lots/LA0217-28...575-maranello/
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post #13 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting that the original car I started this thread about, the 2002 575M Maranello at the RM Sotheby's Arizona auction, sold for US$187,000. This shows that buyers/investors still want a low mileage car despite the problems that may result from a car staying stationary for 15 odd years. http://rmsothebys.com/az17/arizona/l...anello/1701765

Clyde
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post #14 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiammenghi Engineering View Post
Ciao Clyde, hahaha... you make me lot of smiles ....I'm different, the next time that i will buy a 575 ....? never be because i hope to neve sell my HGTC .... too nice for my taste ...For now you will enjoy your wonderful 430 ...Fabio
Fabio I also hope to keep my 575 for as long as I can drive her and may that be many years!

Clyde, betcha a nickel your next 575 is an F1 - you'll remember just how much fun the F1 was, how it made you a better driver and you'll decide that it ain't worth double the money to have a stick - betcha!

But far more important, note the sale at $187,000. of the 575 that started this thread. It illustrates the utter stupidity of not driving these cars. Here's a Ferrari that cost new some $250,000., perhaps a bit more with the FHP, and in 14 years it has sat and deteriorated in a garage or "collection". Some owner(s) have lost tens of thousands of dollars - add the cost of money and inflation and it approaches a six figure loss, AND HE HAS BEEN DEPRIVED OF THE JOY OF DRIVING THE CAR.

Seth
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post #15 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Fabio I also hope to keep my 575 for as long as I can drive her and may that be many years!



Clyde, betcha a nickel your next 575 is an F1 - you'll remember just how much fun the F1 was, how it made you a better driver and you'll decide that it ain't worth double the money to have a stick - betcha!


I guess that's possible Seth
Especially since I have arthritis in my knees and sometimes it bothers me when I drive normally which could mean pain when I'm shifting
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post #16 of 46 Old 01-23-2017, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Ciao Clyde,

hahaha... you make me lot of smiles ....

I'm different, the next time that i will buy a 575 ....? never be because i hope to neve sell my HGTC .... too nice for my taste ...



For now you will enjoy your wonderful 430 ...



Fabio


I am happy I was able to make you smile Fabio . Yes I know you will never sell your HGTC, and especially after all the work you've done perfecting it beyond the great car it was at the start, I can fully understand why. I have to admit that even though I have yet to enjoy my new F430 Spider (due to the winter months here), I am already missing my 575M Maranello, and I think I will follow the 575 market for many years to come or at least until I am able to purchase another one.

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post #17 of 46 Old 01-24-2017, 02:01 AM
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I am happy I was able to make you smile Fabio . Yes I know you will never sell your HGTC, and especially after all the work you've done perfecting it beyond the great car it was at the start, I can fully understand why. I have to admit that even though I have yet to enjoy my new F430 Spider (due to the winter months here), I am already missing my 575M Maranello, and I think I will follow the 575 market for many years to come or at least until I am able to purchase another one.

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Hi Clyde,

I think you will love your 430 ..... also if she misses 4 cylinders .. ahahah
Spider is a great way to drive ....

I love my HGTC, but in the 2013 when I purchased, iI had the money I would have bought a 575 SA HGTC because is a V12 spider .... today this dream is totally expired due to the astronomical price of the SA ...

Fabio

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post #18 of 46 Old 01-24-2017, 04:12 AM
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The next time I buy a 575, and there will be a next time, it will be a 3 pedal.
Clyde


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If you want a manual Maranello to enjoy driving (which sounds like you, Clyde), buy a 550. Much cheaper, simply because not so rare. I cannot believe that a 575 is 50% better than a 550 to drive and to some eyes (mine included) it is a better looking car, inside and out.

Best wishes, John
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post #19 of 46 Old 01-24-2017, 05:23 AM
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If you want a manual Maranello to enjoy driving (which sounds like you, Clyde), buy a 550. Much cheaper, simply because not so rare. I cannot believe that a 575 is 50% better than a 550 to drive and to some eyes (mine included) it is a better looking car, inside and out.
Ciao John,

you advise correct ...
I had 550 in past and now F1 HGTC, excluded the inside and the outer look (that is a personal taste) I found a big difference only on the handling due to the package and to the 19" wheel, i think like John if you compared 550 and 575 manual the only improvement is the syncronization of 575 that is more better that 550, but no one owners of 575 manual who i asked about it told me the difference ..

Fabio

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post #20 of 46 Old 01-24-2017, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Clyde,

I think you will love your 430 ..... also if she misses 4 cylinders .. ahahah
Spider is a great way to drive ....

I love my HGTC, but in the 2013 when I purchased, iI had the money I would have bought a 575 SA HGTC because is a V12 spider .... today this dream is totally expired due to the astronomical price of the SA ...

Fabio
Thank you Fabio I hope so. I am excited and looking forward to the Spring driving. I just purchased a dash cam so that I can take videos on the drive (and a radar detector).
Yes limited production Ferraris have gone crazy in pricing now. I don't expect that to change until there is perhaps another recession, and I hope that does not happen.
Clyde
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