[550JM]

My workshop guy called me today, they are working on my car for regular maintanance and some small issues I wanted to have resolved.
He said that when they fitted new breaking pads they were unable to push the calliper pistons back in on the left front side. After taking the whole thing apart they found a thick, sticky residue that blocked the breakline. After further investigation they found the sticky stuff in all breaklines, callipers and resevoir.
They didn't take any risks, so renewed all break lines and cleaned the whole breaking system...needless to say my bill will be slightly higher then anticipated, but that comes with the territory.....
They took samples from the sludge and breaking fluid and sent it to the Shell lab to have them look at it.
I did not overheat my breaks at any moment, no track days or mountain roads after last maintanance, so no clue to what happened.
Any of you guys have had the same? If not, it might be a good idea to check your braking system.....
They told me I could have overheated or lock the brakes or even worse had they not found this.
Any ideas/experiences?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by 550JM

My workshop guy called me today, they are working on my car for regular maintanance and some small issues I wanted to have resolved.
He said that when they fitted new breaking pads they were unable to push the calliper pistons back in on the left front side. After taking the whole thing apart they found a thick, sticky residue that blocked the breakline. After further investigation they found the sticky stuff in all breaklines, callipers and resevoir.
They didn't take any risks, so renewed all break lines and cleaned the whole breaking system...needless to say my bill will be slightly higher then anticipated, but that comes with the territory.....
They took samples from the sludge and breaking fluid and sent it to the Shell lab to have them look at it.
I did not overheat my breaks at any moment, no track days or mountain roads after last maintanance, so no clue to what happened.
Any of you guys have had the same? If not, it might be a good idea to check your braking system.....
They told me I could have overheated or lock the brakes or even worse had they not found this.
Any ideas/experiences?

Very common with the lousy factory brake fluid. We run into it regularly. I have seen it clog ABS components. Between the problems we have seen with Shell and Tutela products someone at Ferrari must be getting paid off.



How often do you replace the brake fluid anyway?

[a1exander]

If they removed the lines why could they not clean them?
Just curious.

[tazandjan]

Jeroen- Sounds like it built up over the years, probably helped by someone not doing all the annual changes required. A new brake fluid might be in order. We are using ATE Blue in my car, not sure what Brian recommends.

Brian- I am using Tutella CS Speed in my F1 system. Is there a better fluid you would recommend? We extract half of it every year and replace with new. I know one pro who recommended Pentosin as a Tutella replacement.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Jeroen- Sounds like it built up over the years, probably helped by someone not doing all the annual changes required. A new brake fluid might be in order. We are using ATE Blue in my car, not sure what Brian recommends.

Brian- I am using Tutella CS Speed in my F1 system. Is there a better fluid you would recommend? We extract half of it every year and replace with new. I know one pro who recommended Pentosin as a Tutella replacement.

I have no misgiving about CS Speed. It is just ATF without the red dye. Their brake fluid is garbage but it doesn't turn into toothpaste if it gets changed. Anyone who has had it turn to toothpaste really needs new brake fluid and a new mechanic who is taking proper care of the clients car, not just their bank account. They also need someone who is familiar and educated about the various products available and not just pouring in what the Ferrari book says. Some of it is terrible and used for reasons other than that it is the best available. That is what the dealers do because they have to. Ferrrari's motives have little or nothing to do with what is best for the car and having an automoton fixing the car is not what you need. Also no one considers the fact that products and service recommendations are largely set in stone the day the books are printed. Someone who is smart and deals with these problems day in and out can, if they are so inclined, observe what does and does not work and adjust accordingly.


Every single car I have seen this happen to has been serviced at an authorized dealer and done by the book. Doing it by the book is a good starting point but is not the ne plus ultra of automotive care.

[tazandjan]

Brian- I know what you mean. The only fluid in my car that is factroy recommended is the Tutella CS Speed. We just changed from Castrol LMA to ATE Blue because the Castrol was tending to bubble more than Aaron and John liked.

Ferrari is amazingly loyal to whomever is sponsoring their F1 cars. Could be it is written into the contract somewhere.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Brian- I know what you mean. The only fluid in my car that is factroy recommended is the Tutella CS Speed. We just changed from Castrol LMA to ATE Blue because the Castrol was tending to bubble more than Aaron and John liked.

Ferrari is amazingly loyal to whomever is sponsoring their F1 cars. Could be it is written into the contract somewhere.

Over the years I have had 2 clients that worked for Ferrari sponsors and one of them was involved with Ferrari in a liason position. His company was dropped because they did not have enough to offer. Ferrari has a waiting line of companies who want to sponsor them so they are in a position to pick and choose. It takes more than money. You need to be able to provide something else that they need. In the case of one of the companies I spoke of, they were a very high profile sponsor, a name I am sure everyone would recognize but they were told that their product/service just was not a great enough value to Ferrari and they were unceremoniously dropped. In the case of the other, it was a high tech company that had a communication technology Ferrari badly needed. In exchange for that and a whole bunch of money they got a small, probably 4 inch circular sticker on the car. I have every confidence that the products from Shell that Ferrari uses including those used in the factory across the street do not cost a cent. It would fall in line with the demands they make of their other sponsors.


I guess you could say that it is the sponsors that are loyal to Ferrari.

[550JM]

Thanks guys. As I only purchased this car last year, it is the first maintenance during my ownership. All past work done on the car before was documented at the right intervals. It is now in the hands of (independant) guys that know their business and come highly recommended in the Dutch, Belgian and German Ferrari community. Other Dutch FLmembers also use them. They did not work on my car before.
They did not want to clean and re-use the lines and neither did I. Not taking any chances with that....better safe then sorry. Besides, it was real sticky stuff, toothpaste as Brian calls it.

Brian, do you think it could be worthwhile to try to get Ferrari to chip in on the extra work and parts on my bill....?? They will probably blame the dealers that worked on the car...

[Brian]

Originally Posted by 550JM

Brian, do you think it could be worthwhile to try to get Ferrari to chip in on the extra work and parts on my bill....?? They will probably blame the dealers that worked on the car...

It all depends on your distributor. I have no idea what they are like. Ferrari North America's position would be as you described.

What guides my decisions on when to ask a question like that is based on what I consider reasonable if I were in their position. No one at Ferrari knows some of the products they use are no good. They are all indoctrinated to the company line that they use the best of the best without exception. They are too far from where the rubber meets the road to know any better.


They will be happy to sell you a new car though.

[tazandjan]

Jeroen- Brian has a lot more experience than I do, but I would think getting Ferrari to chip in on work being done at an independent on a 10+ year old car would have about the same success probability as surfing on lava.

[550JM]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Jeroen- Brian has a lot more experience than I do, but I would think getting Ferrari to chip in on work being done at an independent on a 10+ year old car would have about the same success probability as surfing on lava.

Haha, I know you're right....keep on dreaming.....
But on the other hand, something is wrong with that stuff, and, like Brian said, if they worked by the book and this is the result...
Anyway, at least we know now it's something that needs to be checked and it's easy to avoid.

[cribbj]

Another system that rarely, if ever, gets flushed & changed, but needs to be, is the ABS. I've seen some very grotty brake fluid coming out of the ABS pump on my own car, I'm sad to say. (Fortunately not the FCar)

On that car it was very straightforward to flush the ABS. I simply disconnected the ABS pump's suction and discharge lines, put a temporary hose on the pump suction so it could draw fresh brake fluid out of a new bottle, then routed another hose from the discharge to an empty container, then hot-wired the pump to run. When the fluid coming out the discharge was clean, I stopped - it only took 10-15 seconds.

Brian, would you have any hints how to get the ABS system flushed and changed on a 550? I'd read in the WSM that the ABS pump can only be activated by an SD1 or SD2? Would there be another way, short of taking the car out and doing "touch & go" type panic stops?