[cribbj]

I had an opportunity recently to purchase a 575M fuel pump assembly at a very good price, so since Taz, I & others have been curious if the 575 pump “innards” are similar to the 550 pumps (unobtainable) I splurged and bought it.

Here it is (mostly) still assembled.


Two differences that you’ll note right away are:

1. The 575 pump basket isn’t fixed/mounted to the rear pump cover (the round white plastic thingie) as the 550 pump is. This is because the 575’s pump basket is located in the tank via some vertical pins that drop in from the top of the tank.



The 550’s pump basket is located in the tank by its connection to the rear pump cover. These two pieces are fastened together with 20mm channel. (Thanks to Moorfan for the excellent pic of this 550 fuel pump)



2. The 575 fuel pump incorporates a fuel level sender for the right hand side pump. This must be the right hand pump as it was equipped with the sender.

Below is a closeup of the tank side of the rear cover. The rear cover is a clever piece of molding which incorporates the fuel pressure regulator (the silver thingie on the left) as well as the fuel passages for the supply and the return from the reg. The hose on the right is the supply coming from the pump, and the hose on the left is the return fuel. The fuel system on the 575 is not a true returnless system, but is an internal tank return setup, where the returned fuel never exits the tank, and the pressure at the rail is held constant.



Here’s a pic of the back (external side) of the rear cover and you can see the raised area of the fuel passage. The fuel exits to the right in this photo via that capped nipple:



Releasing a couple of latches allows the level sender to be removed:



Closeup of the potentiometer for the level sender:



And releasing three more latches allows the fuel pump cartridge to be removed:



Here’s the bottom side of the cartridge showing the removable/replaceable strainer. This is about as far as one can go with the disassembly of this unit. The top cover “appears” that it could be removed but I didn’t want to start cutting hoses to find out:



What’s interesting is this 575 cartridge will drop right into the 550’s basket! It doesn’t “lock” in place as the 550’s pump cartridge does, but it is held rather tightly in place by three spring fingers in the bottom of the basket, and it can’t come out by virtue of the pump hanger assembly.



So this is one answer to those looking for a new 550 fuel pump. Buy the 575 fuel pump, take the cartridge out, put it into the 550 fuel basket and connect the supply hose to the nipple on the rear cover and voila! Even the electrical plugs are the same, (if you have the type of 550 pump that has the plug on the pump endj.)

But for anyone thinking of swapping rear covers and going returnless, the covers are not the same size - here's a pic showing the OD of the 575 rear cover:



And the 550 rear cover:

[tazandjan]

John- Great stuff. Does the substitution do away with the need for the rubber pieces?

[cribbj]

Taz, in my limited inspection of the pump cartridge, I found no rubber pieces like the 550 has. That's the good news

I'm really tempted to cut the hoses, and see if I can get the top off so I can have a look inside, but I might actually want to use this pump, and I'm not keen to start undoing stuff that could be a PITA to redo.

[cribbj]

Well, I just couldn't help myself. Once I started taking this fuel pump apart, I thought, WTH, might as well go all the way. It was actually quite easy - once the strainer is removed, the pump itself can be pressed out via access from the suction port. So here's the pump cartridge disassembled:



Closeup of the pump well in the cartridge (showing the suction port where I pressed the pump out). I'm speculating that this plastic cartridge is actually an outlet side filter, although I have no basis for thinking this, only that the outlet side of the pump connects to one side of the cartridge, then the other side is the final outlet that goes out to the fuel rail.



Here's the interesting bit - a shot of the pump itself after extracting it from the plastic cartridge. You can just make out the Bosch P/N, which is 0 580 453 443. The interesting thing about this is it's the same P/N that's on the used 550 pump setup that I bought:



So I went to the Bosch parts site and entered this P/N to find the "short" P/N that Bosch are now using for their pumps on Amazon, Autozone, PepBoys, etc. and found that it crossed to their P/N 69542:



Went to Amazon and found it for $136, but without a photo. Decided to take a chance and ordered one (Amazon has a great return policy!).

The pump came in, and it's exactly like the pump I just removed from the 575 cartridge. In fact, here's a shot of the Amazon pump, the 550 pump, and the 575 pump. The only differences I could see in the three different pumps are:

The pumps that came out of the Ferrari assemblies are marked "Made in Germany" and the writing is slanted the same way Bosch publications are written, while the Amazon pump "says" it's made in the USA, and the writing is slanted the opposite direction. Hmmm counterfeit? Or just a revision to the manufacture of the pump since 2000?



From left to right, the Amazon pump, the 550 pump, and the 575 pump:

[tazandjan]

John- Just that pump part for the 550 is $436 from Ricambi. A complete 575M fuel pump with the gas gauge sender is cheaper. Looks like you have pretty much unravelled the whole story. I bet the 456/456M pump is identical, too.

[cribbj]

Taz, the 456 pump is a Bosch 0 580 464 990 (short version P/N 69410), and it has slightly lower output than the 550/575 pump, and it also has a threaded outlet and stud/nut electrical connections. Bosch do show it to be the replacement pump for the 550 in their technical literature.

I've got one of these arriving tomorrow, along with a BMW pump which has an integrally mounted fuel pressure regulator that looks like a really cool idea. (Amazon may be getting suspicious of me - I've ordered 3 different pumps and 3 regulators in the last week, and most of these are going to be returned after I've had a look at them )

Here's a pic of it (the 456 pump) (photo credit to Mibi from FChat)

p.s. My intent isn't to try to undercut Daniel's business, but to show the DIY'ers that there are good alternatives for the "unobtainium" 550 pumps as & when they're needed.

[bretm]

I absolutely friggin love these threads. I just got through the xenon conversion you did as well. Awesome.

Originally Posted by cribbj

...p.s. My intent isn't to try to undercut Daniel's business, but to show the DIY'ers that there are good alternatives for the "unobtainium" 550 pumps as & when they're needed.

Ahh, what are you gonna do? There are plenty of other parts that Ferrari, etc. can continue to charge insane prices for. It's a huge service to the community when one of us unravels a cross reference - it also helps to keep the cars running in top shape as it decreases the tendency to put maintenance off. That said, DIYers are such a small group that I doubt it's much of a blip on the mainstream suppliers radar anyway.

[cribbj]

Bret thanks for the kind words - I certainly wish I had the tools & talent to do some of the stuff I've seen you & Mark do.

These little turbine pumps are just about a universal design & fitment now, so if one model becomes stupidly expensive, or NLA, it's easy (and cheap enough) to source a different model either from Bosch, or better yet, a comparable Denso model, and test it for compatibility. Hopefully Daniel is reading this and will now have a couple of better alternatives to offer the 550 customers than the $750 550 fuel pumps.

The next step is to put both models of pumps (the original "443" from the 550/575 and the "433" model from Amazon on a pump dyno and test their outputs. If the cheaper 433 Amazon pump has the delivery (100-110 L/Hr) at the required pressure of 3.8 barg, and the current consumption isn't significantly different, then it can be substituted.

Actually, being very conservative, if we assume the 485 HP rated 550 engine should have 600 HP worth of fuel delivered to it, and it has a BSFC of 0.50, then we need 2 pumps that will put out 300 lbs/hr (190 liters/hr) total, so each pump only needs to put out around 95 liters/hr at the specified pressure of 3.8 barg.

Ferrari, like most OEM's, oversized these pumps to account for unexpected pressure drops in the system, decrease in performance due to aging, low voltage, etc.

[cribbj]

Received the 456 fuel pump, along with the bimmer, which I thought had an integral FPR, but turned out to be a dampner. Just for good measure, I also ordered one of the "044" pumps, as that's probably going to be my pump of choice for a supercharged V8 application.

From the earlier pic of the 456's pump, I was pretty sure it wasn't quite the same construction as the 550/575 pumps. Those are small, very compact turbine type pumps, and it appeared the 456 pump was the old roller cell design. But I wasn't prepared for just how big and heavy the old style pump was in comparison to the new. Here's a pic showing them lined up. From left to right are the "044", the 456, the BMW, and the 550/575 pump:



Same order, different angle - and yes, that's a inlet strainer screen on the bottom of the 456 pump:



And again, only I've removed the fuel pressure dampner from the beemer pump:



The 044 pump is 60mm in diameter, and the 456/BMW pumps are 52mm, while the turbine style 550/575 pump is only 37mm. The length differences are just as apparent, although I didn't measure them.

So it's probably fair to say that the alternate source for 550 fuel pump rubber cushions (Di Fatta Brothers) isn't going to work out, if they only have the 456 pump rubbers. It's now apparent the 456 pump is a totally different type & size from the 550/575 pump. So if anyone needs these rubber cushions, be aware of the pump differences, and make sure your seller is as well before ordering them.

[Bill]

Forgive my lack of understanding...So does all this hard work of yours mean that if I ever need a fuel pump for the 550 I don't have to panic ?

I just send you or Terry a PM and say tell me where and what to buy ?

Last time I did that Terry saved me over $300 on a receiver dryer for the A/C unit.

cheers,

Bill

[cribbj]

Bill, sorry, after all that I didn't draw any conclusions did I? Dohhhh

1. The 575's pump is the same as the later 550 pump. So if you need a new pump for your 550, you can buy the whole 575 assembly (P/N 180464) for $350 from Ricambi, take it apart and get the pump out of it, and you'd still save $100 over buying just the bare 550 pump (P/N 173891). The rest of the paraphernalia from the 575 (the basket assembly, cartridge, etc.) won't interchange 1:1, but it could be made to work with the 550's basket & hanger) if you were determined enough. Fitting the 575 cartridge would also eliminate the troublesome rubber isolator/couplings between the pump and screen. Brian Crall probably has a better alternative than the OEM couplings, but he makes his living doing this and is entitled to keep his IP to himself.

2. The 456GT's pump is a different animal altogether from the 456M/550/575's. In order to use it for the 550, you'd need the 456's rubber isolator and screen, and its outlet has a banjo type fitting which would require to be replaced with a barb, or you'd need someone to build a new banjo based hose with some of that super SAE 30R10 fuel line from Gates.

3. 456GT owners who need new pumps would probably do well to consider "upgrading" to the 456M/550/575 turbine style pumps, which are smaller, quieter and more efficient. They'd also need the rubber isolators and screens from the later setups, plus a new wiring harness. These are all available in the aftermarket much cheaper than Ferrari sells them.

4. Then there are the eBay/Amazon/Pep Boys generic alternatives. I have yet to flow test my generic Bosch pump purchased from Amazon against its blue blooded Ferrari brethren because both RC Engineering and Kinsler want nearly 10x the cost of the bloody pumps to test them. It's such an outrageous cost that I could build my own test rig just for these two pump tests and still come out cheaper. Nine years ago when I did this same testing on a Denso pump, Kinsler charged me 250 bucks, which I thought was pretty outrageous then, but now they want nearly 5x that to test each pump. So unless I decide to ante up $1800 to test $200 worth of pumps, or get a wild hair to build my own test rig, we're not going to know how the generic Bosch pumps actually compare to the Ferrari Bosch ones

[Bill]

Originally Posted by cribbj

Bill, sorry, after all that I didn't draw any conclusions did I? Dohhhh

1. The 575's pump is the same as the later 550 pump. So if you need a new pump for your 550, you can buy the whole 575 assembly (P/N 180464) for $350 from Ricambi, take it apart and get the pump out of it, and you'd still save $100 over buying just the bare 550 pump (P/N 173891). The rest of the paraphernalia from the 575 (the basket assembly, cartridge, etc.) won't interchange 1:1, but it could be made to work with the 550's basket & hanger) if you were determined enough. Fitting the 575 cartridge would also eliminate the troublesome rubber isolator/couplings between the pump and screen. Brian Crall probably has a better alternative than the OEM couplings, but he makes his living doing this and is entitled to keep his IP to himself.

2. The 456GT's pump is a different animal altogether from the 456M/550/575's. In order to use it for the 550, you'd need the 456's rubber isolator and screen, and its outlet has a banjo type fitting which would require to be replaced with a barb, or you'd need someone to build a new banjo based hose with some of that super SAE 30R10 fuel line from Gates.

3. 456GT owners who need new pumps would probably do well to consider "upgrading" to the 456M/550/575 turbine style pumps, which are smaller, quieter and more efficient. They'd also need the rubber isolators and screens from the later setups, plus a new wiring harness. These are all available in the aftermarket much cheaper than Ferrari sells them.

4. Then there are the eBay/Amazon/Pep Boys generic alternatives. I have yet to flow test my generic Bosch pump purchased from Amazon against its blue blooded Ferrari brethren because both RC Engineering and Kinsler want nearly 10x the cost of the bloody pumps to test them. It's such an outrageous cost that I could build my own test rig just for these two pump tests and still come out cheaper. Nine years ago when I did this same testing on a Denso pump, Kinsler charged me 250 bucks, which I thought was pretty outrageous then, but now they want nearly 5x that to test each pump. So unless I decide to ante up $1800 to test $200 worth of pumps, or get a wild hair to build my own test rig, we're not going to know how the generic Bosch pumps actually compare to the Ferrari Bosch ones

Thanks John,
This is great stuff....
Bill

[tazandjan]

John- Any help?

http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-33980...6137385&sr=1-5

[cribbj]

Taz, thanks, but I think I already have all the necessary gauges & adapters.

What I don't have (just yet) is an adjustable PWM voltage controller, and a decent sized fuel pressure regulator. And a 2-3 liter calibrated fuel container (but that's easy enough to make.)

I could test the pumps right now at a single fixed voltage, but I really wanted to see what the flow rates were at lower voltages like 8.5 & 9, and for this I need the PWM controller, plus at higher voltages like 15 & 18v, and for this I need a DC to DC converter (which I do have already). As I need the PWM controller for a radiator fan speed control project anyway, plus I need a good adjustable FPR, I may as well take the plunge and do this. At the end of the day, all it's really going to require is some additional fittings and fuel line as the main components will be used elsewhere afterward.

What I still won't have (but neither do RC or Kinsler, AFAIK) is a fuel cooler to maintain the fuel's temperature (density) during the testing. As we pump and circulate fuel, it's going to heat up, and the density will decrease, so the mass flow rate is going to change a bit. I think I may still have a spare oil cooler around here somewhere, so I may rig that up as a fuel cooler.

Kinsler must have felt guilty, they reduced their price to a thousand bucks to test both pumps, instead of nearly a thousand for each one. Still outrageous, IMO.

[Granucci]

I have two different questions as I only am interested in the 456:

Originally Posted by cribbj

2. The 456GT's pump is a different animal altogether from the 456M/550/575's. In order to use it for the 550, you'd need the 456's rubber isolator and screen, and its outlet has a banjo type fitting which would require to be replaced with a barb, or you'd need someone to build a new banjo based hose with some of that super SAE 30R10 fuel line from Gates.

Does the BMW swap directly for the older 456GT [non-M]? From the pics I fail to see the bottom BMW's screen, but guessing that since the top end is 90%, the bottom is also.

3. 456GT owners who need new pumps would probably do well to consider "upgrading" to the 456M/550/575 turbine style pumps, which are smaller, quieter and more efficient. They'd also need the rubber isolators and screens from the later setups, plus a new wiring harness. These are all available in the aftermarket much cheaper than Ferrari sells them.

I'm not sure this works. But no matter my question would be more

What prices did you pay for the 456 and BMW.
What was the part number for the BMW pump.

I as anyone would not want to diss Daniel/Ricambi. But this may be handy anyway well down the road.

[cribbj]

Originally Posted by Granucci

I have two different questions as I only am interested in the 456:

Does the BMW swap directly for the older 456GT [non-M]? From the pics I fail to see the bottom BMW's screen, but guessing that since the top end is 90%, the bottom is also.

Rik, the 456 pump has a tightly fit screen that encloses the whole bottom of the pump where you can't even see the suction port/nipple. The BMW doesn't have this integral screen, but it has that round plastic screen/strainer that fastens to the suction nipple. I think the pumps themselves are nearly the same otherwise.

Originally Posted by Granucci

What prices did you pay for the 456 and BMW.
What was the part number for the BMW pump.

I as anyone would not want to diss Daniel/Ricambi. But this may be handy anyway well down the road.

The 456GT pump (P/N 69410) was about $103:

The BMW pump (P/N 69491) was about $100:

Note, both the Amazon links refer to these pumps as being the new, more efficient turbine pumps, however the Bosch technical literature that I have refers to them as "roller cell" type pumps. I would tend to believe the Bosch literature over the Amazon.

[Granucci]

Thanks

Went to Amazon, and noticed the Compatibility Charts for each part as well. But then once again, it is their 'documentation' and not official...guessing. They list the 550 Maranello '99 as having the same part -- what, a one-off?

[cribbj]

I noticed that too, and if you go to Ricambi's website, they show an early fuel pump (170427) for the 550 which, I suspect, may be a higher output version of the 456GT pump. They also show it to be superceded by P/N 173891, which is common to the 456M, and I suspect is the same pump used for the 575M, although you can't buy it separately.

The Ricambi illustration for the 550 shows a barbed connection, plus studs & nuts on the electrical side, which is different from all the other pumps. The 456GT uses a banjo and studs & nuts, while the 456M/575/late 550 uses a barb on the output, and a plastic connector type electrical connection.

Interesting that both the 550 pumps that I have here are from a wrecked '99, with a slightly higher Assembly Number than my car, and they're identical to the 575M pump.