[tazandjan]

Early 575Ms with F1 may have the F1 motor 30 amp relay instead of the 50 amp relay of later model cars. If you have an F1 575M, it would be a good idea to check and see which F1 relay you have. If it is the old one, change it if you have not done so already. Unfortunately, the 50 amp relay does not fit the 30 amp connector, so a preemptive change every couple of years is a good idea.

If this relay fails, it may fuze and cause your F1 pump to run continuously, which will eventually burn it out.

The F1 motor pump relay is #5 in this drawing from Ricambi's online catalog and is located in the rear passengers compartment control station behind the driver's seat in LHD cars.

Unfortunately, it looks like this may have bitten one of our FLifers recently.

[henryr]

happen to know the crossover assembly number ?

[tazandjan]

Henry- No, none documented or it would be a lot easier. The change was probably made about the same time as on the 360 and CS, early examples of which had the 30 amp and late models of which had the 50 amp. That puts it somewhere in the MY03-MY04 range.

[jgelovani]

Taz, as you know, I have been so frustrated with relays that have been originally installed on our cars and those available from R##A## with a huge price tag... Therefore, I have spent a lot of time researching and found more reliable and affordable 30Amp (5-prong) and 50Amp (4-prong) relays. I have even found and tested a 70Amp (4-prong) relay in tandem with a 50Amp fuse on one of my friend's CS - which works great (fuse may burn, but not the relay)!!!
Don't hesitate to contact me if anybody needs help with those F1 relays or F1 pump motors (I sell those on e B a y ).

[henryr]

F1 PUMP RELAY New Upgraded Model, Ferrari part #155437 - eBay (item 260841594911 end time Sep-23-11 22:23:49 PDT)

this u ? how do i know which one i need for my 03 575 ?

[tazandjan]

Juri- Good to see you here at FL. That 70 amp relay sounds like a winner, but it does not fit the 30 amp connector and I have not heard of problems with the 50 amp relay. Most people think a relay is some sort of safety device and they are not. That is the fuze's function. You could use a 100 amp relay and be just as safe.

What do you recommend for those with the old 30 amp relay? At one point you had some 50 amp relays that would fit the 30 amp connector, but seems like those were in short supply. I see the Tyco relay you sell on E-Bay for $54, which is way better than the $111 for the OEM 30 amp relay that will just burn up again. Funnily enough, the good 50 amp relay is only $34.

The really silly thing on Ferrari's part for the 575M is that there is the same 50 amp relay, used for the F1 relay in late 360/CS/575M cars, in the engine compartment of all 575Ms.

For those of you checking your relay, four pin connector is good, five pin connector is bad, unless you have upgraded your relay.

[henryr]

155437 is the 30 amp ?

why two diff part numbers on the lower two ?

[tazandjan]

Henry- They look totally different to me except for the pin pattern. The bottom one is $34, no idea how much the middle one is. 233100 is also used in the engine compartment and probably replaced 194909 as a form, fit and function replacement at some point in production.

It dawns on me that they would have had to change the wiring harness to fit the new four pin relays. Looked at the electrical system drawings and it says a new harness introduced at Assembly Number 52556 included relay 194909, so I may not have it either. Will have to look. At least that will give us a definite 30 amp or 50 amp answer, even if it was not one I wanted to hear.

Looked in the 360 and CS parts catalogs and they only list one F1 wiring harness for the 360 that includes 194909, and two for the CS, one of which includes 194909, but no Assembly Numbers in either parts catalog. Know they were changed in the 03/04 timeframe, so that matches up with the 575M in the Dec 03 timeframe if it was done around Assembly Number 52556.

Juri- I may be buying one of your uprated relays.

[tazandjan]

At Assembly Number 52556, the 575M went through a major revision for the steering angle sensor package. This sensor required a new wiring harness for the Motronic DMEs and also included a new rear passenger control station ("F1") harness. This new F1 harness included a change from the five pin 30 amp F1 pump motor relay to a more robust four pin 50 amp relay. Here is the 575M update document reflecting the pump motor relay update. The 360 and CS were updated at approximately the same time, around December 2003.

Now that I know my car does not have the 50 amp relay, I intend to put in a new relay before the old 30 amper causes problems.

[henryr]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

At Assembly Number 52556, the 575M went through a major revision for the steering angle sensor package. This sensor required a new wiring harness for the Motronic DMEs and also included a new rear passenger control station ("F1") harness. This new F1 harness included a change from the five pin 30 amp F1 pump motor relay to a more robust four pin 50 amp relay. Here is the 575M update document reflecting the pump motor relay update. The 360 and CS were updated at approximately the same time, around December 2003.

Now that I know my car does not have the 50 amp relay, I intend to put in a new relay before the old 30 amper causes problems.

so there's not a 50amp 5 pin that'll work ? let me know where u order it from.....

[tazandjan]

Henry- Wilco. Coordinating with Juri to make sure we get it right.

[tazandjan]

I am ordering one of Juri's upgraded 30 amp relays as an interim fix. He says he may be able to supply a five prong to four prong adapter later. That would allow us to fit the OEM 50 amp relay (only $34) at some time in the future, or even a 70 amp relay he is using experimentally in a friend's car. He also has uprated pump motors that can be swapped without having to bleed the F1 system. I may preempt with one of those later. They are genuine Magnetti Marelli motors.

Relay failure has been a huge problem for the 360 community, some of whom change the relay annually as a preemptive measure. One of our FLifers had the following symptoms recently. Driving in 6th gear, he got a low F1 pump pressure indication, and, unfortunately for him, the car did not shift into neutral. The car was stuck in sixth gear. So now you have a car stuck in gear that you cannot even move without lifting the rear wheels. Likely cause was a fused F1 pump motor relay that kept the F1 pump running continuously until the pump motor burned out. No pressure, no shift.

I prefer that not happen to me, so I will be upgrading my system over time.

[henryr]

juri - pls PM me your info - i'll do the same a TAZ

[tazandjan]

Henry- Will send you a PM.

[jgelovani]

Hello,

Sorry for the delay in aswering your questions. I have been traveling for the past week and could not communicate effectively via this forum.

I have a sourse of two types of 30Amp 5-prong relays with higher temperature aloy-based contacts that dont melt and cause permanent "welding" the relay contacts. One is the grey color Tyco V23134-B57-X152, another is organge color V23134-B57-X266 (which is a bit more expensive, but switches on-off faster and can last almost twice the number of cycles of the grey relay).

There is no need for conversion of 30Amp to 50Amp relay, if you have the older version of F1 pump installed in your car, because if you upgrade the relay and corresponding fuse to 50Amp - you will fry the F1 pump motor for sure! Get a new F1 pump motor, which I sell on eBay (item 260841598121). This new motor is manufactured by Magneti Marelli (Electro Parts division). You can replace it in your car without disconnecting hydraulic lines to the pump head. See this YouTube link:
How to change the electric motor in a F1 hydraulic pump used in Ferrari 360 and Maserati cars - YouTube

For those who have 50Amp 4-prong relays in their 575s, I have found a sourse for 70Amp 4-prong superduty relays (see attached pictures), which in compbination with a 50Amp fuse will function very relliably and almost never ever malfunction. This is because the 50Amp fuse will function as a "safety-valve" for both the relay and pump. The realy will tolerate spikes of electric current up to 70-75Amp, at which poit the 50Amp fuse will blow and protect the system.

If you have any questions or need help with instalation instructions, please let me know.

Cheers,
Juri

Originally Posted by henryr

juri - pls PM me your info - i'll do the same a TAZ

[KonaDog06]

Just prior to purchase of my car in Sep. 2010, both the F1 pump #213264 and relay #155437 were replaced due to failure (these are the replacement parts numbers). Car had 10,500 miles at that time. As fyi, the cost of repair for this at The Auto Gallery (CA.), including an annual service was over $2700.

Suspect as preventative maintenance the relay should be upgraded. Question, and a little confused. Is this an easy DIY job where you pull back the carpet behind drivers seat to access the control station or is it beneath the rear shelf? Second part of question, once accessed, assuming you disconnect battery, unplug old relay, plug in new one and reconnect the battery?
Sorry if this seems basic, just trying to be sure I understand. Thanks for any help.
Juri, sending PM for details.

Bill
FL

[jgelovani]

Bill,

The process of swaping the relay is very simple DIY, indeed. As you noted, it is a matter of moving the passenger's seat forward, unscrewing the rear panel, removing the relay by pulling it upwards while holding to the relay socket by the other hand and plugging in a new relay. Make sure to turn the main battery switch into the "off" position after you move the seat forward, before swaping the relay (denoted as #5 on the attached diagram).

In terms of the cost to replace the F1 pump and relay - it may be reasonable according to Ferrari dealership prices and considering $120/hour for labour. You can get a new F1 pump from RicambiAmerica for $800, plus relay $111, plus 2-3 hours labour to replace the F1 pump ($360), which is already $1,271; then an hour for purging the F1 pump and hydraulic lines using an SD3 or SD5 device and new hydraulic fluid (with the cost of purging procedure and hydraulic fluid may cost about $350), which sums to about $1,600-1,700. So, the residual $1,000 must be for the cost of annual maintenance.

Alternatively, you can purchase just a motor for the F1 pump for $395 (which saves you $405, as compare to $800 price of the whole new pump) and ask your mechanic to replace it without disconnecting F1 hydraulic lines from the pump head (<1 hour job; wich will save you $240). Therefore, there is no need to purge the F1 hydraulic system thereafter (additional savigs of $350). Total saved = $995 (most conservative estimate). You can purchase the F1 pump relay for $54 and save additional $57.

So, if you are a DIY-er and swap both, the F1 pump electric motor and relay yourself, then you will save at least $1,250 !

Here are the eBay links:

new F1 pump relay 30Amp 5-prong (for assembly numbers less than 52556): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/260841594911

new F1 pump relay 70Amp 4-prong for use with 50Amp fuse (for assembly numbers after 52556):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/260859936511

new F1 pump motor from Magneti Marelli, Electro Parts division:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/260841598121

If you have questions, let me know.
Cheers.

Originally Posted by KonaDog06

Just prior to purchase of my car in Sep. 2010, both the F1 pump #213264 and relay #155437 were replaced due to failure (these are the replacement parts numbers). Car had 10,500 miles at that time. As fyi, the cost of repair for this at The Auto Gallery (CA.), including an annual service was over $2700.

Suspect as preventative maintenance the relay should be upgraded. Question, and a little confused. Is this an easy DIY job where you pull back the carpet behind drivers seat to access the control station or is it beneath the rear shelf? Second part of question, once accessed, assuming you disconnect battery, unplug old relay, plug in new one and reconnect the battery?
Sorry if this seems basic, just trying to be sure I understand. Thanks for any help.
Juri, sending PM for details.

Bill
FL

[tazandjan]

Bill, Juri- On the 575M, the F1 ECU and relays are on the driver's side. Here are the WSM pages on the F1 ECU. The F1 Pump Motor Relay is just above the ECU on the left. Very easy to reach and to replace.

Juri has an upgraded 30 amp relay I will be using and will soon have a 50 amp relay that will fit in the connector for the 30 amp relay. He also is looking at a connector adapter that will plug into the 30 amp connector and allow the use of the OEM 50 amp relay. Images below of all three OEM relays, the 30 amp, interim 50 amp introduced at Assembly Number 52556, and final 50 amp relay.

[KonaDog06]

Thank You both again.
Much more clear on it now.
Bill
FL

[tazandjan]

Bill- I missed part of your question. Procedure should be to let car get completely cold, disconnect battery, turn off A/C, radio, and any other accessories. Use WSM procedure above to remove panel and remove and replace the relay. Wait 30 minutes. Perform run cycle to let Motronic DMEs relearn.

There is a much more complicated run cycle procedure Ferrari published for the Motronic 7.3 360 and Motronic 7.1.1 575M, which I will post in the 575M technical thread, but there is a much simpler run cycle for the 7.1.1 cars (575, 612, F430) that works just as well. Here it is:

1) Put ignition key into ignition and wait 30 seconds before turning.
2) Turn ignition on and leave for 30 seconds.
3) Turn ignition back to off and leave for 30 seconds.
4) Turn ignition to on, wait for Check OK, and start engine.
5) Allow engine to idle for 10 minutes with no inputs at all.
6) Turn on A/C and any other accessories, reenter Becker radio code.
7) Drive car gently for 20 minutes.


I have attached this run cycle procedure in Word if anyone wishes to save to hard drive.