[Killer58]

Recently, I had a chance to spend a couple hours with the black/tan 456M currently on consignment at Ferrari Of Washington. My first drive of a 456, I'm now sold - a 456 will be my second F-car.

Just not this one.... I'm happy to provide my assessment to anyone interested in the car.

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Killer58

Recently, I had a chance to spend a couple hours with the black/tan 456M currently on consignment at Ferrari Of Washington. My first drive of a 456, I'm now sold - a 456 will be my second F-car.

Just not this one.... I'm happy to provide my assessment to anyone interested in the car.

You have found what I found: Welcome to the beastie club for the family.

What was wrong with the one you saw? Betting it were automatic and black/tan while AWSOME in combo, might not show off the exterior much...just saying.


On a side note: If I were in a better spot right now...I'd be eyeballin' the 599....but only after more price drops. Honestly they will be in the low 100's soon if not lower.

M is the better in terms of refinement and problem adjustment, not to mention the whopping 6 extra HP but I opted for the Enzo/PF styled reverse hood scoops and adj spoiler-bling. It was the way El C' wanted it.

[Killer58]

Rick, I’m with you, and like the hood scoops. Can you put a 456 bonnet on a 456M? That would be the ideal combo to me!! I want something as close to my old Jaguar XJS as I can find. That was the smoothest car I’ve ever driven. So no, the automatic was actually a plus! It was smooth as silk shifting and the acceleration was fantastic. It seems the perfect car for a dining out or road trips that are longer than we’d want in the Spider. That’s what sold me on the 456, and of course the fact that it’s an F-car.

The exhaust note was a bit loud, louder than others I’ve heard. It sounded like a Tubi, but they couldn’t verify the brand. The Black/Tan combo was also very seductive. Just understated enough while still showing the graceful lines of the car. All four P-Zero’s are brand new.

Unfortunately, that’s where this car’s positives stopped. The car has obviously spent much of it’s life in the sun and the interior reflected that. FOW had already replaced several items. Some pieces (rear ashtray, center trim) were missing which they had on order. But the driver’s seat bolster was worn through. The air bag cover was shrunk and badly misshapen, and the interior a bit faded in general very dirty. I wondered why they hadn’t detailed the interior since they did the engine bay (more on that in a bit) since they have had the car for weeks.

The exterior had numerous small dings and scratches, again indicative of having spent a lot of time outside and in parking lots. While it had no signs of accident damage, the rear bumper had five or six deep vertical cracks, large enough to put your thumbnail in, through the paint, and running the entire height of the bumper. The bonnet was difficult to latch and was slightly higher on the right side. And there was a disturbing spot of cancer growing on the right rear quarter panel. About the size of a quarter.

FOW had just done the 30K service and changed the belts. The engine bay looked brand new, and I mean showroom new, like it had never been driven. Not a single spot of dirt, dust, oil, or grease anywhere. I asked if the engine had been pulled or replaced, but they could not confirm. This was strange because it was such a contrast to the outside of the car.

Also, they knew a week ahead I was coming to see the car, and I had confirmed with them two hours out. Yet when I got there, the sales rep couldn’t find the car, and took almost fifteen minutes to locate it?! Once he did, the car wouldn’t start and needed a half hour on the battery charger. Very odd.

FOW claim they will fix most of the existing flaws but they are waiting for a buyer/PPI before doing any more to the car. Before I’d pay their asking price of just over $57K, they’d need to fix virtually everything. I’m estimating about $10k to make it all right.

I’ve asked for them to gather all the maintenance history. Given the cosmetic condition of the car, and the repairs they’ve already done getting it ready to show, I suspect this car had a lot of deferred maintenance. So much so that I’ll pass on this car. But on the bright side, it did convince me a 456 is “The One”.

More once I review the records.

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Killer58

Rick, I’m with you, and like the hood scoops. Can you put a 456 bonnet on a 456M? That would be the ideal combo to me!! I want something as close to my old Jaguar XJS as I can find. That was the smoothest car I’ve ever driven. So no, the automatic was actually a plus! It was smooth as silk shifting and the acceleration was fantastic. It seems the perfect car for a dining out or road trips that are longer than we’d want in the Spider. That’s what sold me on the 456, and of course the fact that it’s an F-car.

Well, fooled me a bit, but now understand vs your desired Jag. And BTW, the auto is not much a problem as some would state. Having said that, and based on the 'other below' items, I would have the trans checked.

Hood: The front grill/bumper area was the only change IIRC to the M from the older, and I am thinking it 'might' be a clean swap.
For the record, that hood, NEW, unfinished is about $29K, minus tax. Can be acquired less on ebay etc.
Made of Kevlar+CF. At the time, it was the largest made CF element ever produced in the Auto field, and quite closely still holds a upper record.

The exhaust note was a bit loud, louder than others I’ve heard. It sounded like a Tubi, but they couldn’t verify the brand. The Black/Tan combo was also very seductive. Just understated enough while still showing the graceful lines of the car. All four P-Zero’s are brand new.

Yup, betting aftermarket exh. My Tubis are 'loud' and a bit rumbly...but, I like sounding off car alarms ... gives me a 'all in the hood' Harley Davidson moment...wife like to wake up the neighbors warming up in the morning too....[one in particular ].. actually most like it and KNOW we are home and my next door has two Ferraris and is an avid racer. BUT YES, it can drown out casual conversation. I acquired OEM cans for later install if desired, at $100/pair [BARGAIN]. But sold them to another 456 guy for double few months later. The OEM cans were so low-key, that many Ferrari types [me included] wanted the more 2-seater approach, but, some not.

Unfortunately, that’s where this car’s positives stopped. The car has obviously spent much of it’s life in the sun and the interior reflected that. FOW had already replaced several items. Some pieces (rear ashtray, center trim) were missing which they had on order. But the driver’s seat bolster was worn through. The air bag cover was shrunk and badly misshapen, and the interior a bit faded in general very dirty. I wondered why they hadn’t detailed the interior since they did the engine bay (more on that in a bit) since they have had the car for weeks.

The exterior had numerous small dings and scratches, again indicative of having spent a lot of time outside and in parking lots. While it had no signs of accident damage,

This all sounds normal to me albeit not what I would want either. The 'extra bits' not brought up to better show is not FOW fault. It is a consignment car and at the owner's discretion, where I'll just bet, based on the below items, he is not a good steward of the car.

the rear bumper had five or six deep vertical cracks, large enough to put your thumbnail in, through the paint, and running the entire height of the bumper. The bonnet was difficult to latch and was slightly higher on the right side. And there was a disturbing spot of cancer growing on the right rear quarter panel. About the size of a quarter.

NOT good. RUN. I'm guessing prev. owner did back up into something. My older model has no such damage, and spends most of the day outside.

My leather back shelf needs replacing but nothing eles. The seats DO wear in time, and goes with any model. BUT bumper cracks that big. NO. He bumped into something...not good. I'll bet he even stopped servicing it at some point as many 'older type' owners. Cheap skates where they bought one becuase it were a Ferrari then wanted out on the big bill. Saw MANY 456's being entirely rebuild at FofSF, and their comments were 'They are garage QUEENS'.

FOW had just done the 30K service and changed the belts. The engine bay looked brand new, and I mean showroom new, like it had never been driven. Not a single spot of dirt, dust, oil, or grease anywhere. I asked if the engine had been pulled or replaced, but they could not confirm. This was strange because it was such a contrast to the outside of the car.

already said IMO why. BUT, I'd wonder at the 30K service. Best taken to a private GOOD mech like Bobileff, Helms or Crall. IF you looked at the interior rubber bits, they are about the first to go...LOT of heat in that area that doesn't go away easily. The rubber hose replacements [not so much on the M] ARE A MUST and with Helms hoses! Using his gold connectors is a huge, huge plus IMO also.

Also, they knew a week ahead I was coming to see the car, and I had confirmed with them two hours out. Yet when I got there, the sales rep couldn’t find the car, and took almost fifteen minutes to locate it?! Once he did, the car wouldn’t start and needed a half hour on the battery charger. Very odd.

They prob. do not have a real vested interest in the car. Not starting right away means there are some 'extras' in that car bleeding the battery. I'd pass on this car....you be paying a LOT to fix the Non-EOM items later.

FOW claim they will fix most of the existing flaws but they are waiting for a buyer/PPI before doing any more to the car. Before I’d pay their asking price of just over $57K, they’d need to fix virtually everything. I’m estimating about $10k to make it all right.

Um, NO. $10k is not going to fix that correctly priced car. Better off with another. Ms if going to sell properly should be in the 60-70K range IMO. Older GTs if problematic in that very range. GOOD 2+2s IMO are in the still near $60. Many may dicker but they never bought one.

I’ve asked for them to gather all the maintenance history. Given the cosmetic condition of the car, and the repairs they’ve already done getting it ready to show, I suspect this car had a lot of deferred maintenance. So much so that I’ll pass on this car. But on the bright side, it did convince me a 456 is “The One”.

Nailed it. Yes, deferred.
456 is a much overlooked car, and I believe a near bargain IF sorted. Might inquire with other, better mechs on a 'consignment'. There are better examples.

More once I review the records.

Well, to make FOW feel good, go ahead, but I wouldn't bother on the 'history'. Sure there is some as these 456 owners typically go to the dealer and all they have are checkbooks, but somewhere their Ferrari attitude went the way of consignment.

[Granucci]

Found elsewhere:
1997 465GTA USA model.
Vin: ZFFWP50A5VO107341
18,800 miles
Automatic
Grigio Titanio (Silver) Interior with Nero (Black) Leather Interior

Price in Jan '11: Price: $54,500.00

but reduced again in mid May.

It looks clean and well presented, but don't know other particulars and not my color combo, but:

http://www.fastcarsltd.com/ Long Beach CA

[Killer58]

They list that one on eBay every so often. Not my color either (I prefer Black, Burgundy, TDF, or Pozzi)

I'm thinking hard about the one Sheehan has on offer. If he still has it after I get back from cruise, I'll have to go fetch it.

[Granucci]

Take your time...but over a rusty nail on a cruise...I just know you'll be thinking of the beast.

[Killer58]

No, I'm in no rush. On the other hand, at what age do you think these cars or going to turn the corner, when even the best maintained examples will need major repairs?

Rusty Nail? Ha! Not that kind of cruise. Nothing stronger than "bug juice" on our boat!! Until liberty call of course....

I'll have a picture of one on the bulkhead for motivation.

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Killer58

No, I'm in no rush. On the other hand, at what age do you think these cars or going to turn the corner, when even the best maintained examples will need major repairs?

this is getting close to that time now, albeit, not quite all of them.
Here are some 'major' things happening even to the 550/575 set, or soon will be:
- Shocks
- Switches
- NEED to re-do the connectors under the hood : HIGHLY Recommend Helm's gold kits
- Electrical boots/covers: Lot of heat in that area.
- bearings: duh, that is an expendable.
- Hoses should already have been upgraded with Helm's hoses, but betting many haven't a clue.
- Radiators/Heater-cores: Ya', unless very well maintained....they'll need some looking after.
- CATS: don't ask how I know, but all these beasts seem to be getting into the issues. Unfortunately, as in other states, CA does not allow re-mfgr CATS [ wink and an nod --I got one but don't a$K the price from OEM].
- Exhaust Manifolds: Ya', all these guys will start to see some failures soon.
- guides on the GT were not as much a problem as the M, so, you are going M...not a concern.

Matter of fact, the M is the better eng. of the series. PS: Asking about the swap of the hoods...thing is they are NOT exactly the same on the front end...

People like RICAMBI will be able to give some insight to those orders.
Mechs can fill in the rest.

I've had ALL the above.

Rusty Nail? Ha! Not that kind of cruise. Nothing stronger than "bug juice" on our boat!! Until liberty call of course....

I'll have a picture of one on the bulkhead for motivation.

Wow, forgot you on a Navy ship? Which carrier? East coastie?

I won't say, as I never did .. I was honorable, but them dirty shirts in the fwd Mess. well, they are just the type to carry something in the stateroom...Not part of ship's company and all...cripes they complained about ships bells for the love of pete....and I KNOW you are one of them: No decent Navy sailor calls his SHIP a BOAT

But you already knew that .... you in your flight suit, chowin down in the dirtly mess and all[actually one of my favorite spots I always went as authorized before bridge watch ]


Hey killer: Just kidding... Not only was I 1st Lt. afloat, the acting legal officer, but 1st air division officer. Sierra Hotel, mate.

[Killer58]

Well, your list is precisely what started me looking at a Quatroporte as an alternative... The QPs jerky shifting is what steered me back to the 456.

I've been wondering about modern car's long-term viability lately, F-cars in particular. With so many electronic parts, and specialized plastic/composite parts, it seems they will reach a point where they are not maintainable. Either because parts are unavailable or from a financial standpoint.

Due to its relatively low market value to repair cost ratio, I'm worried that the 456 may be the poster child for this situation.

Decisions, decisions...

Break break

With the exception of a DC tour I just completed, I'm a west coast brown shoe my whole career. All my floats have been on Chester's namesake, including the upcoming one. Yeah, I was one of those slimy, dirty shirt guys.... Luckily, I've moved uptown and now work and eat in the "blue tile" area! From enlisted barracks to one-man stateroom, I'm one lucky SOB!

SF Shipmate!

[360 Modena]

Originally Posted by Killer58

Recently, I had a chance to spend a couple hours with the black/tan 456M currently on consignment at Ferrari Of Washington. My first drive of a 456, I'm now sold - a 456 will be my second F-car.

Just not this one.... I'm happy to provide my assessment to anyone interested in the car.

If it is a 12 cylinder that generates your interest in another F-car, you should consider a TR Dave. While I enjoy my 360, the TR is my true love.

[Killer58]

Fair point, we'll have to go for a spin in yours the next time I can make it out to City Dock or Donuts (that's proving harder than expected!!).

While a smooth GT is the primary interest, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

[Killer58]

We interrupt this post to bring you direction from higher headquarters:

CINCHOUSE says the car must have room for two sets of golf clubs and/or weekend luggage.

[Granucci]

You are a Ferrari owner: you just buy your clubs there, and toss them...geesch.

IF, you look at the two seaters, they is little room in there for luggage AND TWO sets of clubs...but a real golfer only needs three clubs....actually two if you double your driver as a putter

CICHOUSE, ya'....sounds like a GOOD Navy-type spouse.... I especially used to like the changing of command in the first few years when [what's his name ] came home and mom threw the reins to him. That lasted about two tours, then CICHOUSE [nice term] became, somehow, a rank above whomever was on cruise that session

he was a brown shoe also, Supply Corps, retired mustang Cdr.

Cruise will give a lot more time to study, compare, and [also important ]depreciate whatever comes next

[Killer58]

I could do without ANY clubs just fine thank you very much. In my book, trading luggage space for approval is a fair trade.
In fact, any CO that permits and actually encourages a two-Ferrari household will be in command for many tours....

[Granucci]

Agree: Here's to a long, term, tour.

[Granucci]

Talked with Brian Keagan at Ferrparts, and the hood is a straight swap. He knows his Ferrari parts almost like none other. Easy removal, as only four bolts holding the hinges. Def. a two-three man job as a bit tricky getting the parts straight.

The grill/bumpers arangements are totally different.

On the air intakes, there may be some changes, but the hood swaps.

ebay has several [three IIRC from Ferrparts] of the older 456 in range from $3-7/8K....not sure it's worth the change at that price, but I like the older reference to Ferrari's past with the scoops on top, and the side V.

[Killer58]

Sweet. I like the outside of the early 456 but the inside of the M. At $3K plus, that's like adding aftermarket wheels. Easy decision.

But wait.... Josh tells me there's a fix for the jerky shifting QP.

What to do, which to choose?? Best go on cruise where I can safely ponder the choices....