[matts]

Hello, I hope I can get some help from some knowledgeable person over here... The question is mainly aimed at European owners, but any help would be greatly appreciated!

I want some input regarding the tipo F133A & F133C engines in the 550, concerning emmissions. I searched everywhere, but haven't managed to find anything useful..
1. is it true that the F133A engine meets Euro 3 standards? An automotorundsport test from 1996 sais yes, but it sounds suspicious...(a Euro 3 car from 1996) can you confirm that?
2. if not all 550s have Euro 3, could you tell me since what year did they meet Euro 3 standards, and not only Euro 2?
3. When was the F133A replaced with the F133C, and what were the differences?

It would help me tremendously, since registering a Euro 2 car here is costing me ~20.000 Euros!
I'm eagerly awaiting your reply,
Regards,
Matt

P.S.: 550 owners, please chime in and post your car's date of manufacture & Euro norm! It could be one way of solving this riddle

[JazzyO]

Blimey, I have never even been interested to find out what these norms mean.

Where are you located? If these are European-wide regulations, then why do I not have to comply with these registration fines here in Holland?


Onno

[matts]

I'm in Romania, we have a tax that's made to make people buy new cars with tiny engines, and forbid second-hand cars with bigger engines. It's a very complicated formula, but it makes sure almost noone can afford a good, used car (average salary is ~300E/month). The highest tax I calculated is (hold on!) 270.000 (yes, two hundred seventy thousand) Euros... and that for a car from within the EU, where there were supposed to be no tax barriers, but the govt's law department found loopholes, so they came up with the "first registration tax", in which every car registered for the first time in Romania must be taxed - even though it was previously registered within the EU. People close to the Government all have bussinesses selling new cars (Dacia, Renault, Citroen etc) so they're doing everything they can to stop people buying second-hand cars from within the EU.

Back to my original question, a 550 starts at around 50k Euros, so if it has Euro 2, the tax is 20k, that's nearly half, that's robbery! If it's Euro 3, it's 6k, a little more than 10%, that's acceptable.
What Euro do you have? yours is a 2000, right? Is it a F133A or F133C engine? Any data would help.

[Ollenaram550]

Second that - blimey!
Euro 2 was 1996 to 2000
Euro 3 was 2000 to 2005.

The regulations set max emissions on CO2, Nitrous oxide, particulates etc.

It depends if the tax is based on year of manufacture or if it depends on actual emission values. Logically it should depend on emission values. It is therefore entirely possible that the earlier engines, whilst manufactured in the Euro 2 period actually satisfied the more stringent Euro 3 emission limits.

I am not sure when Ferrari changed the engines from 133a to 133c. My 550 ( 1998) registration document doesn't go in to this depth of detail. I can check in the handbook tomorrow. The question is why did Ferrari change the engine designation. It is entirely possible the change was made to comply with the new Euro 3 emission limits. If that were so then it is unlikely that a pre 2000 car would comply with Euro 3.

I reckon that 550's are more price sensitive to mileage and condition rather than year of manufacture. Why not just go for a 133c engined car. The tax saving is €14,000. Even if the later (133c) car is more expensive it wont be €14,000 more.

[Granucci]

Based on what I am hearing about European engine emission specs and costs, what does anyone think will happen to 'bad' 550's? Would they be a bargain to Federalize in the states? I mean, they are still perfectly good cars, and prices will certainly go down in EU areas....so why not bring them here?

[JazzyO]

Well, Rik, it's actually not a problem at all for other EU states, it seems it only is for Romania. Because naturally, these laws are only for new cars. You don't have to lump in a new engine if your car is 1998 and doesn't comply with 2000 standards.


Onno

[matts]

Well, at last, some good news.The F133A is on the registration office's Euro 3 list. But hold on to your champagne, they say it's not official, and that I should go with the car to get the info based on the VIN. Best case scenario, it is indeed how automororundsport said, and the 550 was built to obey Euro 3 standards. I have many examples of cars which were released earlier than the mandatory term for Euro 3 - when the BMW 540 changed to VANOS in '98, it complied; the 2001 Opel Speedster Turbo was Euro 4! Moving in-house, the F116C in the 456M replaced the F116B in '98, and that is the point when it had Euro 3. Using this rationale, it would seem that the 550, having 2 engine codes, but no difference in power or displacement, must have made the switch to Euro 3 when the F133A was replaced by the F133C, as Ollenaram 550 said. However, if it sais that the F133A also meets the conditions, there are only 2 possible situations:
1. All F133A's are Euro 3 or
2. after 1996, but before the 550 got the F133C (anywhere from 1998 to 2001 probably) F133A engined maranellos were reengineered to cope with euro 3, changing cats, sensors, software, but not changing the code.

The more I delve into the issue, the more I see life in pink, but I also know that unlikely positive events are very, very rare. I could just go for a post 2001, or 2002 model, but looked-after examples are arriving pretty close in value to the 575M, which almost surely has Euro 4 (a few hundred E, 1k tops). The 456 just dropped from my list, the GT that I loved is unavailable in Euro 3 clothes. I think the pre GTM's interior & front is much more sexy than the post 98 models - and post 98 models are only a tad cheaper than similar 550's.

The cheapest 550 I saw was @ 42k, so I think that from around 55k they are in reasonable condition. I don't want to go over 60k, because I have to allow money for maintenance and repairs. I try to be realistic and not overstretch myself. Ideal car: '97-'00 blue/black with blue/tan/black interior, ~50k miles so it doesn't suffer from the sitting still disease.

@ Granucci - sorry to burst your bubble, but this is only in Romania. In the rest of the EU, things are normal. We are cursed! Stay away if you want to live!!!

[Ollenaram550]

Have you considered a UK right hand drive? From the prices you are quoting the continental LHD 550's seem to be slightly more expensive than here. There are plenty of LHD cars here so a RHD car in a LHD country should be OK.

I know of a RHD 575 that is for sale over here. Silver, 2003, 25k miles. I was browsing for something else so didn't inspect it in detail. Visually stunning but it was a cat D insurance write off that has been restored. Hence price £46k. After all many classic Ferrari's have been damaged more severely than cat D then repaired and are still worth mega millions. Cat D is not a measure of the extent of damage. In simple terms it is a ratio of repair cost Vs market value after repair. If its been done properly then it shouldn't matter that it is a cat D particularly if you are looking to buy a keeper. If you intend to sell in the medium term then getting rid will likely be a problem. Still, at £46k thats a 10k+ saving on market price. I have no interest in promoting this car - it just happened to be where I had gone to test drive a different model Ferrari.

If its LHD you want then why not try to ask the factory about the 133a/133c emissions. The worst that can happen is they don't answer you.

[enz898]

Ollernaram:

Is the £46k 575 the silver one at Verdi?

If it is, it seems like quite a nice car with the fiorano handling package. Altough I would prefer the manual transmission.

[Ollenaram550]

Originally Posted by enz898

Ollernaram:

Is the £46k 575 the silver one at Verdi?

If it is, it seems like quite a nice car with the fiorano handling package. Altough I would prefer the manual transmission.

Yep, thats the one.

[matts]

Wow, I too saw that. Truly nice price. I do not have any problem whatsoever with owning a previously crashed car, as long as the frame structure hasn't been touched. I see no harm in a bashed bumper/lights, side srapes etc, however I do have a problem with RHD. Aren't LHD cars cheaper in Britain?
Anyway, talked to ferrari, who said to contact a local dealer, did that, talked to them, but as soon as they realized I don't want to buy a car from them, they gave me the bird... The 575 is very interesting, however, its main problem is that it's too new, so even if it's Euro 3, it's 6-7 yo, that means again ~20.000E tax. Totally another story if it's Euro 4, but initial evidence sais no. Went to the registration office about the Euro 3 issue with the 550, they said they can't tell me, I have to buy the car, bring bring it to them so they can look at the VIN, and then they'll tell me if it's 2 or 3. GOD, the nerve!!! The purpose of knowing was to find out BEFORE I buy!!! Some people are just so.... not very smart :|
Did you guys find out anything in the mean time? I'm spent...

[matts]

PS: anyone with a 550 from '96-'00 volunteer to post their VIN? Maybe it'll get them talking... If you don't feel comfortable about giving such info, just ignore this

[Ollenaram550]

1) Try the factory
2) Try another official dealer
3) Ask Karl Verdi - he has the £46k 575. very knowledgeable guy
4) Ask any of the other reputable UK independents. also knowledgeable guys
5) Try yet another official dealer

Dont give up.

Once you get your 550/575 then you will know why it was worth the effort