[articpt]

Hello my name is Tiago. I have no Ferrari yet. But i am a huge fan.

Here in Portugal, cars are very expensive. A Ferrari Mondial are in 42000usd to 57000usd range. The 348´s are in 57000usd to 71000usd depending the year. It´s common to see 97 550M for sale for 115000usd.

I dont know the prices in other countries, but today i saw a 2008 F430 Spider F1 for 321 000 USD O_o ... One exemple , my diesel Passat costs here almost 63000 usd

In my garage i have

1 92´ Range Rover
1 82´ Series III
2 Nissan Navara 4x4
1 VW Passat 2.0 Tdi
1 VW Polo 1.4 Tdi
1 Nissan 200SX S13

and i am thinking in a Ferrari ... It´s a Old dream ... I am thinking this one ...





It´s for sale for 45000€ ( 64000 usd )

but i saw a yellow 348ts for 43000€ ( 615000 usd )

what do you think?

[Granucci]

Welcome, and that is crazy price for a well MPG car: VW nuts.....ya' think they would encourage that car in EURO area....but what do I know.

The Mondial T coup above, is beautiful. I am not a big fan of white any interior, but, in your area, might be just the thing...beautiful combo.

1. What is the year of that model: I am quite certain it is a 1989 RIGHT . That is some good and some concerns. I'll have to search but the motronics are older and the alternator is not up to specs if Ferrari didn't do the upgrade. The lack of seat mice [auto seatbelts is VERY nice] and gives the back seats more room. The other issues to be concerned is the FUSE block but all 348 models had that eventual problem. Other than the shields and cup holders in rear, it looks fairly stock.
2. Mileage :
3. WHEN, in terms of months, was the MAJOR ENgine out service performed:
4. BY WHO:
5. How has the car been driven since the last MAJOR?--Give mileage and miles/month.:

6. The price, and I know cabriolets are a premium, but, thinking not far off in your area: BUT I would not pay that high. Coups were rarer, depending on year, and should have commanded a higher price. I would have expected a cabriolet in your area and the coup in northern countries. whatever.

the 348 is a different thread. so we'll keep on the T topic here.

Ask away as I am doing many things to my Mondial T as we speak.

[IPF]

Hi Tiago,

Those are some steep prices. I thought The Netherlands were horrendous in that respect, but this seems to be some 20% up from 'our' price levels. A top quality '89 Mondial would set you back about €35.000-€40.000k at worst, and a good 348 can be had for a similar amount around these parts.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your story, but please do keep in mind that cost of purchase is only a small part of the story.

First off: Mondials and 348s may cost in the same range and look a bit similar due to the horizontal slats, but they are indeed very different cars in terms of concept, driving and usability. What do you want/need the car for: semi daily driving with >2 persons, or just plain sports fun?

Then I guess the maintenance on these models may differ, the 348 likely being a tad more expensive in the upkeep all things being equal, but Mondials being notorious for having a fair statistical chance of being less well kept historically (i.e. generating more cost now). There are quite a few people around here who can tell you a lot more than this. In any case be prepared for serious cost of ownership (at the rate of 10, maybe 20% of your initial investment on an annual basis to keep it running and well-sorted).

The Mondial colour combination looks smashing by the way, love the crema on blue. It is really very difficult however to say from a couple of pictures like that whether it's worth this kind of money. In any case, do try not get hung up on that one specimen, compare it to others, test-drive a few and get an independent PPI done (in your presence, preferably).

There are people on this forum who know the Portuguese Ferrari-market, just wait and see, they will react and likely give you some interesting PoVs, dealers, etc.

Best of luck in your choice and do post if and when you've decided!

Cheers.
Irvin

[articpt]

Here all cars are very expensive ...
My Nissan Navara Pilot Edition was more than 40000€ too. Even the VW Polo 1.4 TDi Sport ( 2 seats ) costed more than 20000€ but i can do 100km with 5€ of diesel ( 1€ = 1L)

The Mondial T, they say it´s a 06/1992 car, with 40.000 km.

[IPF]

Interesting, can't quickly find the Polo you're referring to, but to give you an impression of Dutch pricing: a Passat 2.0 TDi (2008) costs either €30-33k (110 hp), €35-43k (140 hp) or €36-43k (170 hp)

The Mondial is then apparently from the pre-final year of production and state-of-the-art as Mondials go.
40k km is not huge mileage (nor is it alarmingly low, it seems about right I'ld say), but bear in mind mileage (or kilometrage if you will) doesn't really tell you much, except in the extremes perhaps (which this is clearly not). Best get it technically checked anyhow.

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by IPF

Then I guess the maintenance on these models may differ,

Yes, but not in the way you think...see below.

the 348 likely being a tad more expensive in the upkeep all things being equal, but Mondials being notorious for having a fair statistical chance of being less well kept historically (i.e. generating more cost now). There are quite a few people around here who can tell you a lot more than this. In any case be prepared for serious cost of ownership (at the rate of 10, maybe 20% of your initial investment on an annual basis to keep it running and well-sorted).

THIS is going to require some discuss: [remember the T is the lab rat for the 348]
T have different issues - and NOT less expensive, but, sometimes they are about equal:
1. The settings on the particular year you have indicate an older Motronics: Guessing, and the upgrade is easy.
2. The suspension settings on this is 3-way, not 2-way as the 348. BUT, as said, most T owners don't fiddle with that much, so not a big issue, but, they do go out and getting the motorized top-gear is no longer a great issue and now in metal not plastic. The Bil. shocks can be rebuilt, by the OEM but take a long time and with same parts. SOME as I have had several done, for less and better espcecially in terms of turnaround.
3. that year will need the upgraded, someday, alternator, which if not already toasted, will need to be done.
4. you'll start to have starting issues, but this is due to low voltage and current at the key, to the starter solenoid, but NOT a big issue: $80udf
6. Keep as all Ferraris, on a charger.
7. CHECK the radiator for no corrosion: These older ones is not changed regularly will be a problem.
8. all, check rubber, hose parts.
9. GET A LEAK DOWN AND COMPRESSION TEST!. Just because the engine light doesn't go on doesn't mean your pistons are not going south: when the lights go on, in that area = you are already toasted...do a leak/compression test to find it NOW.

----- I'm in the middle of an ORACLE install, so will continue later --
[I'm baaaack]

348 users will hammer me here but:
1. They tend to modify their rigs more, like missing CATs, exhausts, pipes, some even did better pistons on rebuild [as I might on my T, if not modifying the offset of the Piston arms]
2. wider tires, some with spacers.. So many were done, that if not correct you might have some issues.
3. TS had some leak problems, just not a prev. as cabriolets, but you have a coup there so not an issue.
4. Many DIYers or skimpers on the more expensive [because they are 2 seaters] might not have done them correctly.

lastly Oils should be more upgraded synths. Filters should be OEM. Plugs, wires, such should be OEM IMO: WHY re-invent good specs.

A/C might be issues, but only if someone tried to modify from OEM which you'ld be sorry if done, and want back to original specs.

THAT year model unlike the later T's and all 348 [IIRC] had plastic strakes: They be a problem over time and the 348 = $$$$$. The '89 there, had metal strakes = VERY NICE: I know, I swapped mine for those, and kept the plastic ones on the wall.

BOTH ARE ENGINE OUT, 3 year/30k services. NEEDS water pump and bearings done. MAKE sure to put an inline filter on the external side of the gas recirc canister or you will be doing a costly, engine rebuild if not just to take care of the small parts. I could write a thread on this alone.

There are people on this forum who know the Portuguese Ferrari-market, just wait and see, they will react and likely give you some interesting PoVs, dealers, etc.

Best of luck in your choice and do post if and when you've decided!

Cheers.
Irvin

Yup, we have a few who know better than us, I'm guessing. Shoot many just in EU maket would know better than I on that issue.

[IPF]

Can't quite grasp all of the above, but I do stand corrected!

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by IPF

Can't quite grasp all of the above, but I do stand corrected!

hey, I'm jugggling here

no, not corrected, but some believe two seaters are more expensive than 2+ers. Not even unless the more super the car.

Basically the Mondials are just the bigger bros of the two-seaters. Even the competions were not that much more in terms of expense. Most 2+ers had more expense due to acers of leather, back sills, doors, latches, tops that require more work and were the prototypes to the 2 seaters [later on]

One of many to tie here: Angelis' thread: 348 Modification and upgrade checklist

[Eve P]

Originally Posted by articpt

... but i saw a yellow 348ts for 43000€ ( 615000 usd )

what do you think?

Hi there Tiago, and welcome, go for the yellow one!!!

But that would just be personal preference ...

Eve

[Granucci]

we have two gal avid owners here and both own Fly Spider 355's goooo fiure

[articpt]

Originally Posted by IPF

Interesting, can't quickly find the Polo you're referring to, but to give you an impression of Dutch pricing: a Passat 2.0 TDi (2008) costs either €30-33k (110 hp), €35-43k (140 hp) or €36-43k (170 hp

The Polo is a 2006 Model. With 80hp. It have A/C, 15" Wheels, i think it have a lower springs too or stiffer ... here´s a picture of him ... It was a present for my brother



This is the passat. Daily Driver ... 140hp. Highline version.



But to play i have the s13 ... with 255hp & 300nm

[articpt]

btw this is the yellow one
56000 km , 1994 , 43k €


This beauty is for sale here ... 250 k € anyone?

[Granucci]

the 348/355 are excellent in Fly and those are about the only two cars that look good in yellow....however, I DO warm up to others.

[Boxer]

Car prices in Portugal are just silly.....all due to excessive taxation to fund an amazingly bloated an ineffecient government. Suggest you look at buying in Germany or Italy and then importing.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by IPF

Those are some steep prices.

He was quoting USD so they're in line with The Netherlands. €76k for a '97 550 is not strange at all, if you buying at a dealership you'd be paying that. Which means looking at other options is smart and I don't know Portugal's import rules but buying in Germany or Italy seems a good idea. In Holland it's done very often and will be cheaper. The other advantage is that the market is far larger and you can pick from several examples that match your requirements, usually.

Welcome, BTW.


Onno

[articpt]

If i want to import a ferrari or other high cc car , i would pay a lot of money in tax.

Here the prices are stupid, they are in line with other european countries, but here the average wages are a lot less ...

I can say that more than 50% of the population live with less than 500€ / month.

Here a person with high education win about 1000€ / month in the beggining of his career. In the House constrution market for example, a worker´s wage is 600€/700€ per month ... in most cases.

80% of our diesel and gasoline prices are government tax.

[articpt]

Today i saw a 348ts on mobile.de for 29500€.

So i made a quick tax simulation ... The final cost of the car was more than 47000€ ... plus trip, hotel, car transportation

[articpt]

For a 97 F355 Spider in mobile.de for a amazing 39.900€ i would pay 18827.52€ for import tax, and 207€ for circulation Tax.

So the cost was aprox. 60.000€ ... plus airplane tickets, hotel, food, car transportation ...

Here I can find a 99 355 F1 for 65.000€ ...
Importing a car to here isn´t a good choice

[Granucci]

well, if the up-tax has you concerned have you also considered the maintenance costs of these two: They are amongst Ferraris more expensive to upkeep. Both require an engine out.

[articpt]

I am not a pro. My business are houses ... I build and sell them ... and also make projects for them.

But in Car concern, i can do pretty much everything in a car ... so maintenance costs aren´t very important to me ...