360 spider purchase - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-10-2016, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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360 spider purchase

Hello,

Very first post. I am considering purchasing a 05 360 spider, F1 in silver with approximately 18k miles. Although I never owned a Ferrari before, I have come close in the past and read up on the 360 to educate myself as much as possible. The car is at a Ferrari dealership in NJ. I have asked and reviewed records and this is what I know: it is a 4 owner car, clean car fax no accidents. Major service with cam belts and all fluids was done in September of 2013 at a Ferrari dealership and since then it has done less than 800 miles. It would need to have the belts replaced again this September according to the 3 year schedule. I was informed that clutch life was at 90%. Other than that not much else, but I am glad the fluids were done since I was quoted at 7k for a major service with fluids at an independent dealer. A sub 2k belt change in September is doable for me in the immediate future. The price is 85k. For a 05 it seems reasonable. I am asking for advice as to what I should ask the Ferrari dealership for. As far as a PPI, whats the norm if its at a dealership? Should they have an inspection done already? Is it reasonable to get an independent one? Should I get one if they already did one?
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post #2 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 03:45 AM
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Stingray,

Welcome to the forum, I think you've come to the right place. You'll find a great deal of expertise and experience here.

From the few details you've listed, my guess is the dealership has figured in the anticipated $7-8K major in the price. So 85 seems about right. Among other things, I would want to know how often the fluids were changed. Was it yearly or just with the major? I can tell you from experience, if the latter, your $2K service in Sept is unlikely. These cars do not like to sit, especially the fluids. Secondly, I'd want to know the results of a PPI, whether done by the dealer or otherwise. There are several good PPI formats posted here, including one I made several years ago during my search.

Lastly, you'll find a range of opinion here regarding average service costs. There was one regarding 360 service just a month or two ago. It's worth a search. There are those who have been fortunate in their maintenance bills. However, as I pointed out in my previous posts, the youngest of these cars are now over ten years old. So it is reasonable to expect an increase in maintenance/expense as things begin to wear out.

Also, Ferrari ownership is definitely a pay-to-play endeavor. If you get away with a $2K bill after purchase, consider yourself lucky. However, it would be prudent to anticipate one a few multiples larger.

Finally, good luck with your search and hopefully a purchase!

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post #3 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 03:51 AM
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Have a PPI done at someplace other than the selling dealer. That's your first step and a must. As service costs are a concern, you must know what you are getting into. There is nothing inexpensive about owning a Ferrari other than that a 360 is one of the least expensive Ferrari's to own, if you get one that has been maintained.

$85K means very little if the car needs ball joints and rear tie rod ends, as most do.

With rare exception; all fluids should be replaced annually.

Ownership costs on a F1-equipped car will be higher than a manual.

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post #4 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies.

What seems to bring the most confusion for me is the "major service" moniker. When I called an independent dealer they quoted me over $7,000 for a major service and was advised it would include a belt change and replacing all of the fluids, plus engine detailing. He also mentioned that if all of the fluids were changed in 13 then it wouldn't need the fluids just the belt and was quoted about $1,800 for the belt. Does that mean just the fluids would be $5,000!? Something doesn't add up there. An oil change at least once a year makes sense, but replacing the gearbox oil, coolant, ps fluid and brake fluid every three years seems excessive. Usually with other cars it would be five, at least with the cars that I have owned. Is it different with the 360 for some reason?

Lastly is there anyone in NJ that does independent PPI's?
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post #5 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66stingray View Post
...He also mentioned that if all of the fluids were changed in 13 then it wouldn't need the fluids ..
Remove this shop from your list. He is not a familiar with the known "lack of fluid services" resulting in expensive consequences.

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Originally Posted by 66stingray View Post
Does that mean just the fluids would be $5,000
Full fluid services and a chassis inspection will be in the $1500 range. If service costs are a significant concern, you may want to consider another brand. These are not inexpensive to own; maintenance is modest. Repairs are expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66stingray View Post
An oil change at least once a year makes sense, but replacing the gearbox oil, coolant, ps fluid and brake fluid every three years seems excessive.
How do you figure? The catalytic converters absolutely cook the gearbox oil. The transaxle inter-cooler fails due to lack of coolant services, often resulting in catastrophic gearbox failures.

Ferrari are special and require a knowledgeable shop. The single largest problem with these car is poor service, followed by not enough preventative care. This ALWAYS results in unplanned, expensive repairs. The owner's manual is lacking in the car's service requirements. Find a pro and let them guide you.

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Last edited by David @ FluentInFerrari; 03-11-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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post #6 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
Full fluid services and a chassis inspection will be in the $1500 range. If service costs are a significant concern, you may want to consider another brand. These are not inexpensive to own; maintenance is modest. Repairs are expensive.
Service costs would be a significant concern if I get overcharged for something simply because its a Ferrari. As you pointed out your estimate would be in the $1,500 range, so why would he charge 5k for all fluids plus an engine detail?

I am also unfamiliar with the F1 gearbox reliability, design etc and that is why I came to this forum. So if the gearbox design needs a yearly fluid change then so be it. But a yearly brake and coolant flush seems excessive to me. At 3 years which is what this car is at seems reasonable to do especially since it was mainly unused. But again, that is not what the independent guy told me and that is why I posted here. So it looks like i would need to do a major ( fluids and belts). Now i just need to find a place that doesn't overcharge just because it is a Ferrari.
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post #7 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 07:59 AM
 
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66stinggray, it is good you are looking into service cost as some people do not consider that when they purchase an F-car and are in for a rude awakening. Having said that, keep in mind a Ferrari is in a league of it's own and you can't apply a regular car's service schedule or cost to an F-car.

The guys on this site, in some instances, know more than some Ferrari Dealerships or mechanics. I would take take what Killer58 and David says seriously.

Finally you will not regret buying the car, it seems very very nice.

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post #8 of 13 Old 03-11-2016, 12:03 PM
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If you cannot get your arms around annual fluid changes for all fluids, including the F1 system, for $1000-1500 and around $3000 every 3-5 years for a cambelt and aux belt change, do not even consider buying a 360.

There is an oil/coolant transaxle cooler that fails frequently and can trash your transaxle and contaminate your cooling system. The only way to know is to check annually to see if you have coolant in your oil or oil in your coolant. Saves a huge potential expense. Brake fluid needs to be changed annually, period. It absorbs water and the water can trash your ABS system, seals and pistons. The transaxle is pump lubricated, not splash like your Corvettes, and really tough on oil. Especially when you consider how close it is to that big heater, the engine.

Deferred or ignored maintenance kills Ferraris, so if you are unwilling to do the maintenance, please do not torture what sounds like a very nice 360 Spider.

Finally, get a 360 owners manual and go through the maintenance requirements it contains. They are not quite as stringent as you will hear here, but still call for annual oil changes and brake fluid flushes. Some of the more frequent changes recommended here come from lessons learned the hard way by other owners and pros like David.

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post #9 of 13 Old 03-12-2016, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
If you cannot get your arms around annual fluid changes for all fluids, including the F1 system, for $1000-1500 and around $3000 every 3-5 years for a cambelt and aux belt change, do not even consider buying a 360.

Some of the more frequent changes recommended here come from lessons learned the hard way by other owners and pros like David.
Stingray,

If you take the car to a reputable shop, you will not be "over charged". As I said, you will find a very high percentage of owners and professionals here, with decades of experience. Taz nailed it, as did Dave. Trust their judgement.

Your math is correct, but for reasons you don't quite understand yet. My Spider was pristine in almost every way when I bought it. Had the requisite belt change history and campaigns. However, it did not get annual fluid changes for a few years. The result was it required significantly more than the belt service cost to remedy the resulting sludge that accumulated in the lines, calipers, reservoirs, nooks and crannies. And I was lucky that no "serious" damage, like the heat exchanger failure, happened.

The 360 you mentioned is slightly below market average for a very simple reason: it will need work after purchase. The dealership knows this as do informed potential buyers.

Do a deeper search here for maintenance, deferred maintenance, and the Buyers Guide. Look up Mike Sheehan and read his articles on the 360.

But don't be discouraged, the learning curve here can be very steep. And very sobering.

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post #10 of 13 Old 03-13-2016, 02:37 PM
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Stingray,
Let me just preface that I have owned a 348SS and now own a 308QV so I am not your 360 expert as some of the others that have posted here.
While you are correct in thinking that the rate of fluid changes is "excessive", please know that the marque that is on the car "FERRARI" is inherently excessive by definition. These guys are giving you good information and I beg of you - please listen to them.
The reason you don't see as many Ferrari's driving around as you do say Porsches, is because there are not many people willing to shell out 1-2k every year and 7+ k every 3-4 years for a true "major" to maintain any car. Those of us who own these things are a little crazy if you don't mind me saying and are willing to do so.
I have talked some of my friends out of buying a Ferrari because they just don't care how fantastic the cars are, they are not willing to pay the piper to own one because it IS that excessive to maintain these cars.
That being said, you sound like a reasonable guy who is just trying to get the facts....the guys in the above posts are giving them to you and it would be wise to heed their advice.
Welcome to the forum and I would be glad to talk to you about ownership if you want, just let me know and I will shoot you a phone number.
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post #11 of 13 Old 04-01-2016, 10:26 PM
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Stingray, if you are still shopping around you should browse our listings: Ferrari 360 Spider For Sale

I personally would prefer a manual, everyone is different and I am in no means hating on the F1... I have driven both and for most, the F1 is more practical.
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post #12 of 13 Old 04-17-2016, 02:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efg2014 View Post
66stinggray, it is good you are looking into service cost as some people do not consider that when they purchase an F-car and are in for a rude awakening. Having said that, keep in mind a Ferrari is in a league of it's own and you can't apply a regular car's service schedule or cost to an F-car.

The guys on this site, in some instances, know more than some Ferrari Dealerships or mechanics. I would take take what Killer58 and David says seriously.

Finally you will not regret buying the car, it seems very very nice.
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post #13 of 13 Old 04-18-2016, 10:08 AM
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I live in the UK, not the USA, and I don't own a 360, or any other V8 Ferrari come to that, so I am supremely unqualified to answer your question!

HOWEVER, I was never one to let ignorance prevent me from giving advice. So here goes.

Take it for an extended test drive. If you aren't totally smitten when you get back, have surgery.

Seriously, do get an independent PPI and if that confirms it is an OK car, then, subject to the dealer being flexible about anything negative that the PPI reveals, buy it. You will not regret it.

Find yourself a good service garage - main agent or independent, probably the latter - ask for recommendations from other owners - and follow their advice. Don't cut corners, 'cos it just ain't worth it. It will cost you more than a few $$$ to run, but it will be worth every last cent and more. And if you are lucky (like I was with my 550 - yes it was luck, rather than good judgement), it will pay for itself and even show you a profit.

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