[Killer58]

Originally Posted by 134282

Going through the motions to properly and adequately secure a fine Italian acquisition is like a rite of passage....

Quite right. And a major reason why owning a Ferrari is still uncommon.

While I agree with all that's been stated, I also would caution Rubi against "Irrational Exuberance". That is - if he thinks the PPI process is traumatic, he'll fare even worse when he faces the first engine-out service.

No question, Ferrari ownership is an expensive pay-to-play endeavor, and not for the faint of heart. Rubi, we're all trying to make your Ferrari purchase a success. That kind of help is how most of us arrived here in the first place.

So do your research. If the advice you receive here helps you make a successful purchase, then we're all better off for it. But the same holds true if our advice helps you decide against ownership.

For the record, I give the whole experience:

[ECSofVirginia]

Rubi, I generally ask $600 for a full proper PPI with compression & leakdown. I knock some off for an onsite with no lift access, but charge for my travel time. So for this type of trip, $600 or so would still be in the ballpark.

The last two cars I saw from Flemings was a Testarossa and a Maserati Spyder. Both cars were honest and good cars to own. I was able to perform a showroom compression test on the Testarossa. They probably thought I was crazy, but it's part of the job.

A leakdown is too difficult to do, a steady stream of 100psi compressed air is needed. I wouldn't even be able to get a portable compressor to provide that. You would need to convince them to let the car out or put it in their shop so we could have full access.

I do certainly agree that both tests are required, nothing is "good enough" when checking a 355.

There are certainly some very good cars out there and ownership won't be all down hill. But it is imperative that you do all your homework up front so the rest is easy sailing. Used car sales is a crap shoot, no matter what brand. The difference in Ferrari is the relativity of prices. Repairs get real expensive real fast and the cars value can plummet depending on condition. You don't want to be "taken".

I don't recommend expecting anyone to be 100% honest and up front when selling used Ferraris. You must act as if everyone is trying to pull a fast one and be diligent.

I have a 96 Red/Tan 6spd Spyder here for a Major service that is actively for sale. If that sounds like a car that catches your eye, you're welcome to come by and have a look at it. I'll put you in touch with the car's owner as well.

[wetpet]

just to be clear, i have a problem with their service, not their sales.( notice i am pictured on their sales floor) Their service department is particularly well documented and i hazard to say most of the guys local agree with me. I am sure josh is delighted with their service! Hence the recommendation to not use them for a PPI.

That being said, i would by a car from anyone. Including FOW and Flemmings. I just wouldn't do it without thoroughly checking it out. Any dealer can have a great car at a great price. Some more than others.

Originally Posted by cribbj

Although my buddy Wetpet has a particular hard-on for FoW, I did buy my 550 from them.

[cribbj]

Originally Posted by wetpet

just to be clear, i have a problem with their service, not their sales.( notice i am pictured on their sales floor) Their service department is particularly well documented and i hazard to say most of the guys local agree with me. I am sure josh is delighted with their service! Hence the recommendation to not use them for a PPI.

That being said, i would by a car from anyone. Including FOW and Flemmings. I just wouldn't do it without thoroughly checking it out. Any dealer can have a great car at a great price. Some more than others.

Gotcha Ed - I reread the OP's opening post and now realise the car isn't even at FoW, but at Flemings......doh, my bad

[RubiFan]

Originally Posted by 134282

Also, if you can, post the serial numbers (last six digits of the VIN) of the car(s) in which you're interested, so that others who might have relevant information can add to whatever history has already been disclosed to you by the seller.

Thank you for the kind offer 179325. That would be great.

The VIN ends in 115325.

[RubiFan]

Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia

I have a 96 Red/Tan 6spd Spyder here for a Major service that is actively for sale. If that sounds like a car that catches your eye, you're welcome to come by and have a look at it. I'll put you in touch with the car's owner as well.

Thanks ECS, I like the idea that the car is in your shop - considering the reputation you have here. I will see if I can get out to your location.

[RubiFan]

I must say YOU guys make the Internet worthwhile and I really appreciate the time you all take to answer these questions.

[FourThreeOh]

As a fellow jk'er, good luck with the purchase. :-)

[RubiFan]

Originally Posted by FourThreeOh

As a fellow jk'er, good luck with the purchase. :-)

Ouch, I'm selling my JK for this. And I'm sad about it. But I barely use it as well.

[wetpet]

so we're still buddies?

Originally Posted by cribbj

Gotcha Ed - I reread the OP's opening post and now realise the car isn't even at FoW, but at Flemings......doh, my bad

[cribbj]

Absolutely, M8

[wetpet]

excellent! my first one. can i friend you on facebook? i only have three and they aren't really friends. more like relatives.

[134282]

Originally Posted by RubiFan

The VIN ends in 115325.

This is a 1999 355 F1 Spider, likely built in February, 1999. It was first up for sale through Prestige Imports of Randallstown, MD, in March, 2008; black with black interior, shields, Tubi exhaust, HRE wheels, Challenge grille, 17,673 miles; they were asking $79,995 at the time. Then the aforementioned Fleming's Ultimate Garage of Rockville, MD, had it for sale in October of last year, Nero D.S. 1250 (the proper name for Ferrari's then-current non-metallic black) with black interior, shields, black top, Challenge grille (no mention of the HREs or the Tubi), 27,995 miles.

Find out if it still has the Tubi, and if it does, find out if the car comes with the original exhaust; same with the wheels. Also ask if the car has the original window sticker; if so, check the sticker to confirm the options listed match the car's current configuration. If the car came with luggage, see if the car still has the original luggage - if not, the car is technically incomplete (even if you don't care about the luggage) and you can use that as a bargaining chip to whittle down the asking price. Be sure to confirm, preferably via e-mail with pictures, that the car has the appropriate number of keys and key fobs, the complete set of books, the complete set of tools, a factory cover (perhaps even the seat and steering wheel covers), service records, ownership history, etc. For every bit that they have, request pictures (via e-mail, not over the phone; if you receive e-mail replies confirming included accessories, you can use those e-mails in court if you're later gipped out of the accessories*). For every bit that they don't have, use that to your advantage to get the price reduced. It's all business until you get the car; but once you get it, it's pure emotional overload. There's no rational reason to purchase/own a Ferrari (or Ferraris), so don't try to apply logic to the ownership experience. You wouldn't try to make your wife understand why a certain pair of jeans might make her look fat, right? Then don't try to rationalize the Ferrari experience. It's the rawest, most visceral emotional journey on which you could ever embark through mere materialism.


*I understand this all sounds very negative, but I've heard far too many stories of salesmen or dealers who told potential buyers that cars were complete and correct, and important accessories/documents were missing upon delivery - often times never to be seen again.

[RubiFan]

Hi 134282,

I wish I had these questions in the beginning, now I may be too emotionally involved : 0

If I recall, I remember seeing the tool bags (is this the luggage?) and books and perhaps a cover bag, but no mention of original equipment, e.g. wheels or exhaust. I doubt, seat or wheel covers with be present either - infact, I doubt the car will be technically complete. I didnt research this aspect, not only cause I wasnt sure what to look for nor was I thinking of getting it in its original condition but was instead more concerned about it's overall health. They don't want to come down on the price. They also claim that only about 300 triple black F1s' were made that year - don't know if that's true or if I should care.

Thanks again.

[355dreamer]

Typical Flemmings BS. How on earth would they know how many were produced? Make them prove that statement.

I really have a hard time with Flemmings. They recently had a delorean for sale, and since I'm in the market, I decided to go look. I called first, and they said the car was very clean, and prensented very well. Once I got there, it was clear that this car had once been painted, and the paint was removed with a belt grinder, completely ruining the stainless steel. There was no exterior trim, the painted parts didn't match, it was a wreck. At most, it was worth 8-9k.

As I was talking to the sales guys, another came over and told me he sold the car, over the phone to someone in Utah. I can only imagine how disappointed the new owner must have been when his delorean arrived.

I'd suggest calling Josh and taking a look at the red car he mentioned.

[tazandjan]

LC- You are correct. Nobody has complete statistics for how many of any normal production Ferrari were built by color except possibly Ferrari, and they are not talking.

[wetpet]

my fav flemmings story is this: a friend was buying an mv agusta from them. as they slid the contract over to him to sign, they nonchalantly mentioned it had a salvage title! he didn't sign. I actually had been in there negotiating with them on the same bike prior to that but didn't buy it. They never mentioned it to me either.

[ECSofVirginia]

I believe the proper phrase here would be "slick"?!? Rubi said the agreed to let Competizione do a PPI, I'm interested to see what that result is...

[134282]

Originally Posted by RubiFan

Hi 134282,

I wish I had these questions in the beginning, now I may be too emotionally involved : 0

If I recall, I remember seeing the tool bags (is this the luggage?) and books and perhaps a cover bag, but no mention of original equipment, e.g. wheels or exhaust. I doubt, seat or wheel covers with be present either - infact, I doubt the car will be technically complete. I didnt research this aspect, not only cause I wasnt sure what to look for nor was I thinking of getting it in its original condition but was instead more concerned about it's overall health. They don't want to come down on the prize. They also claim that only about 300 triple black F1s' were made that year - don't know if that's true or if I should care.

The tool bag has the toolkit - which is not the same as luggage. Back then, and still now, one of the options you can order with a new Ferrari is matching luggage. It's expensive, but you can do it. The 355 owners here can tell you exactly what comprises a COMPLETE toolkit, and you'll want to make sure it's complete before you make your purchase. If you're ever going to sell the car down the road, an incomplete toolkit will hurt the resale value (not significantly, but still). As for production numbers by color, I refer you to Terry's statement:

Originally Posted by tazandjan

LC- You are correct. Nobody has complete statistics for how many of any normal production Ferrari were built by color except possibly Ferrari, and they are not talking.

[RubiFan]

Originally Posted by 355dreamer

I'd suggest calling Josh and taking a look at the red car he mentioned.

I did, and was happy to have met Josh (even if just via phone). I would feel great about buying from someone like Josh or a car he's touched such as this one, except the person selling it wants substantially more for it and its older.