[RossoVeloce]

The new Dodge "Dart" is here :
2013 Dodge Dart – News – Car and Driver

As much as I love Alfa and as much I wanted them to come back to the US I didn't want it to happen like this! It would have been fine if they had called it anything other than that! A Dart is supposed to be a muscle car not a Euro hatch with a Fiat engine! It's just as bad for the Alfa too! Hopefully this will be a good car and will at least get America interested in Alfa Romeo.

[a1exander]

sexy yes....good I very much doubt it.
Alfas fall apart quicker than American cars.

[RossoVeloce]

Now that I think about it, it's honestly not that bad at least we finally get a new Alfa, even if it is branded a Dodge. They just chose the wrong name.

[Brian]

Thats all we need, more front wheel drive crap. I dont care who made it or what name it carries.

[RossoVeloce]

If it helps Alfa return then I'm all for it. I think America could use a good Euro hot hatch.... Hey, I am trying to embrace it.

[wetpet]

been a mopar fan since the 70's and never considered the dart to be positioned as a muscle car. very few ever came with a motor bigger than a 340. Although many friends stuffed 440s and the occasional hemi in them. most from the factory where pretty pedestrian with slant 6s. anyway, the dart was never a big thing in the mopar world so i don't see any harm in it.

This, on the other hand was an abomination.

[RossoVeloce]

Yeah, I've been looking for a Dart or a A body barracuda to put the 440 I'm building and boreing to 500 in. It's a father/son project we should have done years ago when I was little. Should be a neck snapper!

Just looking at that Challenger makes me cringe

[wetpet]

get a 71 duster.

[RossoVeloce]

That's a definite possibility.

[Night Life]

Ahahahahahahaha front wheel drive Ahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry but WTF are they thinking

Ok so the actual car itself is not that bad, but brand it properly for Gods sake, not tag it to iconic muscle car of the past.

[Trainman]

Chrysler seem to have no corporate memory or fidelity to their old models. When the Challenger badge got stuck on the Mitsu, I was disappointed. When the new Charger sprouted a couple extra doors, I shook my head in shame. For a while, there were rumors that the Challenger badge was going to get stuck on what eventually emerged as the short-lived Aspen SUV.

Bumble Bee stripes and Daytona decals and wings on the Ram pickup? What's next, Road Runner minivans?

When I saw the first leaked images of the new Challenger show car, I thought to myself, that would be nice, but they'll never build it, and if they do, it will be named something else. I promised myself that if they ever make a convertible version, I'll be first in line to order one. Still waiting, but not holding my breath.

Logically, this new "Dart" should be called an Omni or a Colt. The Dart badge should be hung on something that would compete against the new Chevy Cruz. Add in a turbo 4 cylinder option and call it a Dart GT or R/T.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by Trainman

Chrysler seem to have no corporate memory or fidelity to their old models. When the Challenger badge got stuck on the Mitsu, I was disappointed. When the new Charger sprouted a couple extra doors, I shook my head in shame. For a while, there were rumors that the Challenger badge was going to get stuck on what eventually emerged as the short-lived Aspen SUV.

Bumble Bee stripes and Daytona decals and wings on the Ram pickup? What's next, Road Runner minivans?

When I saw the first leaked images of the new Challenger show car, I thought to myself, that would be nice, but they'll never build it, and if they do, it will be named something else. I promised myself that if they ever make a convertible version, I'll be first in line to order one. Still waiting, but not holding my breath.

Logically, this new "Dart" should be called an Omni or a Colt. The Dart badge should be hung on something that would compete against the new Chevy Cruz. Add in a turbo 4 cylinder option and call it a Dart GT or R/T.

Good points, a new Omni GLHS turbo 4 door with a hatch actually makes perfect sense and would be awesome (with 3 pedals) . My thing with this car is the trans is going to be a 9 speed option. I/m thinking it will be shifting ALL THE TIME and with more shifts equals more wear. I can't see them being very durable.

[Trainman]

Originally Posted by JayG

Good points, a new Omni GLHS turbo 4 door with a hatch actually makes perfect sense and would be awesome (with 3 pedals) .

Exactly what I was contemplating. Heck, if they could wedge a V6 plant in there, even an Omni SRT6.

My thing with this car is the trans is going to be a 9 speed option. I/m thinking it will be shifting ALL THE TIME and with more shifts equals more wear. I can't see them being very durable.

I'm really perplexed about all this n-speed transmission stuff lately (where n > 6) Just cut the horsing around and go with a constantly variable transmission already! I have a 2010 Altima 3.5SR with a CVT, and it is slick. When people ask me how many gears it has, I answer either "one" or "as many as I want."

[wetpet]

Good analysis. i got to tell you though, as a multiple (6) 1970 challenger owner and concours judge, i think they hit the new challenger out of the park. I haven't bought a new(ish) coupe in 25 years, but i would really like to have one of those challengers. ANd may yet get one as they drop below 20k used.

[Trainman]

Originally Posted by wetpet

they hit the new challenger out of the park.

I agree on that opinion completely.

In the retro styling department, I think Mopar wins, Ford comes in a very close second with the Mustang and Chevy a distant third with the Camaro.

And I think all three are really cool interpretations of the original, so there really isn't a loser...just my opinion on how close the design came to hitting the original intent.

[Pete04222]

Originally Posted by wetpet

been a mopar fan since the 70's and never considered the dart to be positioned as a muscle car. very few ever came with a motor bigger than a 340. Although many friends stuffed 440s and the occasional hemi in them. most from the factory where pretty pedestrian with slant 6s.

Agree entirely. The Dodge Dart and the Plymouth Volare were grandma cars. My grandma actually had one. But I will say one thing, that 225 slant 6 was an engine you just couldn't kill. My grandma drove hers for a month with no oil in it. 150,000 miles on it and all you had to do was drill out the idle ports on the carb a little and you could put your coffee cup on the air cleaner while the engine was running. Super smooth, super reliable and super easy to work on. I've seen the slant 6 used in marine applications as well on restored 30's era powerboats.

I think the Mopar 225 slant six is one of those engines that never got the accolades it deserved. It wasn't a powerhouse but it was reliable and served the American public for many years. Not a muscle car engine but always there for you like a Singer sewing machine or a Hoover vacuum cleaner that always runs with little to no maintanence.

[Trainman]

It's the little old lady from Pasadena!

Granny Cars, you say? You mean like the

Plymouth Road Runner (Belvedere)
Dodge Super Bee (Coronet)
Pontiac GTO (Tempest)
Olds 442 (Cutlass)
on and on...

Except for the mid 60's pony cars (Mustang, Barracuda & Camaro) the Muscle Car was almost always an up-engined Granny Car. The little old lady from Pasadena drove a super stock Dodge, often thought to be a Max Wedge Polara, one of the first muscle cars.

I think the Dodge Dart was one of those well kept secrets in the muscle car world. Wetpet is pretty much correct, the vast majority of them were shade-tree conversions (done in the 70's as lots of land yacht 383 and 440 plants became cheap!). However in 1968 you could get a 383 as a factory engine in the Dart GTS. By 1969, the 440 was available as well. Talk to the right people and fork over enough cash, and you could even get a 426 Hemi in one.

Warp drive on bias ply tires!

And that was the problem, the street tires of the day just couldn't connect all that torque and horsepower to the pavement in a car the size of a Dart. To do that, you needed the weight of an intermediate platform. The big block Dart in the 60's was just a tire roaster, and likely why it never really gained a lot of popularity.

As for the Volare', I think you meant Valiant in this context. The Valiant was the Plymouth A-Body version of the Dart. The Volare' was the Plymouth F-body similar to the Dodge Aspen introduced in the mid 70's. Two very different platforms, but both with lots of Granny potential.

[RossoVeloce]

Originally Posted by Trainman

Chrysler seem to have no corporate memory or fidelity to their old models. When the Challenger badge got stuck on the Mitsu, I was disappointed. When the new Charger sprouted a couple extra doors, I shook my head in shame. For a while, there were rumors that the Challenger badge was going to get stuck on what eventually emerged as the short-lived Aspen SUV.

Bumble Bee stripes and Daytona decals and wings on the Ram pickup? What's next, Road Runner minivans?

When I saw the first leaked images of the new Challenger show car, I thought to myself, that would be nice, but they'll never build it, and if they do, it will be named something else. I promised myself that if they ever make a convertible version, I'll be first in line to order one. Still waiting, but not holding my breath.

Logically, this new "Dart" should be called an Omni or a Colt. The Dart badge should be hung on something that would compete against the new Chevy Cruz. Add in a turbo 4 cylinder option and call it a Dart GT or R/T.

I completely agree with all of that. Supposedly it's going to get the Abarth 500 engine for a performance model. I think they should just go all Alfa and put a Alfa V-6 in it. And a 426 in the Challenger. Then Dodge's problems would be solved. Hey, one can dream!

[wetpet]

rather have a 440-6!

[Pete04222]

I would think most of us purists like purpose built cars. You want a Ferrari, you buy a Ferrari. You don't stick a wing on the back of mom's 4-door Civic and call it a racecar. You want a muscle car you don't buy a Dart and stick a 440 in it, you buy a Challenger with a 440.