[RossoVeloce]

A couple have popped up locally pretty cheap. I was wondering what your guys' opinion was on them. I have heard their reputation but we all now that stereotypes aren't always true.

Ciao,
Rosso

[maytag]

I've owned several BiTurbos, though it has been 12 years since I sold the last one.

I think they are a great, fun, "disposable" car. Don't try to repair anything on 'em. Just buy one that runs well, drive it 'til it literally falls apart (and it will), then sell the wheels to a Fiat enthusiast and scrap the rest.

Ok.... seriously: their poor reputation is, IMHO, well deserved. There are far too many bugs in these cars that pop-up consistently on so many of them. The result is that those parts are harder and harder to find, and the boys on Mercer Island get more and more $$ out of the ones still available. BUT: when the boost hits, it can be a LOT of fun.

The front end was poorly designed, so they're not a great handling car. The trans is prone to early failure because ZF decided that roller-needle bearings in plastic cages would be fine (why wouldn't it be?) and then they placed it in the car right between 2 turbos that run at well over 1500d. The trans gets cooked, the plastic retaining the bearings melts, the shafts get spalled, and then you've got a junk trans.

so like I say: get to know your loval Fiat club: those guys LOVE to put BiTurbo wheels on their cars.

[RossoVeloce]

Hahaha that's about what I thought! I was just entertaining the idea but I think I'll check one at anyway.

If I do get one I'm sure I'll drive the wheels off it (literally) so I think a call to the Fiat club is probably in order as well!

[maytag]

okay, so while you're looking:
iirc, and I'm not saying I do.... BUT: I think in '85 there was a BiTurbo 'E', or some-such, that was a liquid-to-air inter-cooled version. That in and of itself was only worth a couple of HP, but it moved the turbos. Who knows: it may have been Maserati's way of fixing a problem without admitting there had been a problem. These were available in Europe as the "ES", as I recall.

If you find one, these are more desirable. As such, they fetch a premium and therefore are typically better cared-for.

The BiTurbo Spyder was a good-looking car, but prone to many of the same problems.

Electrical gremlins were difficult to chase, and it seems like the push-buttons on the control-panel never worked correctly in any car I've been around.

But if you find one with a pristine interior: let me know. I want it. I'll swap-in a Buick V6 or something. that was just about the nicest interior around in its' day.

[RossoVeloce]

Thanks for the advice maytag. Would you seriously put a Buick engine in it though!?

[maytag]

Originally Posted by RossoVeloce

Thanks for the advice maytag. Would you seriously put a Buick engine in it though!?

well, not just ANY Buick engine....
see here:
John Rains 284 MPH Twin Turbo Buick V6 Record Pass Bonneville - Tuned By Shane T - YouTube

Kenny Duttweiler is a genius with these motors. 900hp grocery-getter....

[RossoVeloce]

HOLY CRAP! I didn't think that was possible. In that case it's alright! haha that's awesome.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by RossoVeloce

Thanks for the advice maytag. Would you seriously put a Buick engine in it though!?

There are probably more turbo Regals in the 10's than Maserati BiTurbos that would pass a safety inspection.

[RossoVeloce]

Originally Posted by JayG

There are probably more turbo Regals in the 10's than Maserati BiTurbos that would pass a safety inspection.

True but when someone asks "What's it got in it" would you rather say Maserati Twin Turbo V6 or a Twin Turbo V6 from a Regal. Plus I would much rather have a car that's original.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by RossoVeloce

True but when someone asks "What's it got in it" would you rather say Maserati Twin Turbo V6 or a Twin Turbo V6 from a Regal. Plus I would much rather have a car that's original.

I would rather say the buick honestly. That would be cooler and people that know cars know the potential. More reliable, more power, less expensive, more parts availability. The only thing the Maserati has going for it is the name, which in the late 80's just equates to trouble. People won't be anymore impressed if you said Maserati when they nknow what era its from. I'm all about keeping things original when there is a reason but if original equals junk then hack it up!

[maytag]

Originally Posted by JayG

I would rather say the buick honestly. That would be cooler and people that know cars know the potential. More reliable, more power, less expensive, more parts availability. The only thing the Maserati has going for it is the name, which in the late 80's just equates to trouble. People won't be anymore impressed if you said Maserati when they nknow what era its from. I'm all about keeping things original when there is a reason but if original equals junk then hack it up!

Well said. Not to be misunderstood: I'm not a big Buick guy anymore (there was a day when I could build a Buick 455 with my eyes closed and holding a baby on one arm... ) but Maserati earned their poor reputation in the '80s, and it took a serious revamp and paradigm shift to get them back to where they are now. I am not a respecter of name-brands at all. to paraphrase Shakespeare: "a crappy car by any other name is still a crappy car".

[RossoVeloce]

Originally Posted by maytag

Well said. Not to be misunderstood: I'm not a big Buick guy anymore (there was a day when I could build a Buick 455 with my eyes closed and holding a baby on one arm... ) but Maserati earned their poor reputation in the '80s, and it took a serious revamp and paradigm shift to get them back to where they are now. I am not a respecter of name-brands at all. to paraphrase Shakespeare: "a crappy car by any other name is still a crappy car".

Haha yeah I agree but I'm a little bit of a purist and hate modding any car unless it's a all out racer. If I had one ,honestly, it would probably eventually happen anyway. If your serious about one, maytag, I could see if I could get some pics of the interior for you.

I've decided to save my gas and check out a Porsche 944 that's closer and cheaper minus questionable build quality. I just need something fast and fun really. My first choice for a budget sports car would be an Alfa but here in rural TN we don't have any so that's ruled out.

[RossoVeloce]

Here's a link if your interested maytag:

1985 Maserati Bi-Turbo

[JayG]

Originally Posted by RossoVeloce

Haha yeah I agree but I'm a little bit of a purist and hate modding any car unless it's a all out racer. If I had one ,honestly, it would probably eventually happen anyway. If your serious about one, maytag, I could see if I could get some pics of the interior for you.

I've decided to save my gas and check out a Porsche 944 that's closer and cheaper minus questionable build quality. I just need something fast and fun really. My first choice for a budget sports car would be an Alfa but here in rural TN we don't have any so that's ruled out.

Make sure the water pump isnt leaking on the 944 (big issue with them). Timing belt up to date and they are fun little cars.

[maytag]

RossoVeloce:
so.... I don't know what range you've got in mind, and wether it is a project, or turn-key... but I might suggest you check the Fiat Spider.

That TC motor is a great little motor. I prefer it (by far) to the Alfa of the same vintage. It's an interesting phenomenon, Fiat Spiders: they have not held their value at all over the last 35 years, until NOW. I think that coincides with the return of Fiat to the USA, but for whatever reason, 18 months ago, you could pickup a great example for $2500. Now it is nearly double that. Pristine models have gone from $4500 to over $10k. But if you are careful, you can still pick one up for a bargain. The motor will rev its' guts out. I've seen 8k rpm in a tired, 60k-mile motor.

and I'd be lie-ing if I didn;t tell you that part of the charm is the emotive charisma it shares with its brother: Ferrari. I'm not going to tell you how similar they are, that;d be disingenuous, but there is a feel to them.... the same parts bins maybe? I dunno... but the way the car feels evokes the same images of guys assembling them with half-eaten sandwiches on their work-benches, assembling a car they love, and that they own for themselves too.

call me nuts.

[RossoVeloce]

Thanks for the advice JayG will do.

I've already considered a Fiat and when I drove it I didn't really like it. The one I drove needed a good amount of work so I'm sure that factored in but the last Alfa Spider I drove was even worse off than the Fiat and was a lot more fun. I love Alfas because when you own one, whether exciting or frustrating, there's never a dull moment. They make cars to be the best they can be.....briefly.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by RossoVeloce

They make cars to be the best they can be.....briefly.

Classic!!

[RossoVeloce]

Porsche was a no go. I've actually decided to to go look at a 78 Fiat Spider believe it or not! I was wondering what I should look for other than excessive rust of course.

[maytag]

With the fiat, what you see is largely what you get. Look for badly repaired (or worse, covered-up) rust, particularly in the sills / rocker area. Most of these czars begin to rust just in front of the rear-wheels, and just behind the fronts.
Check the firewall, behind the brake booster. A common issue is for the firewall to collapse where the clutch-pedal penetrates. This presents as no clutch disengagement when you press the pedal, and on inspection, a "tear" in the firewall behind the booster.
Look for rust on the crossmember / shock tower in front. the A-arms bolt to it, and occasionally I've seen them rust and separate from the structure.
Very common to these cars is the trailing-arm bushings wearing-out. this presents initially as a severe change in direction / orientation based on throttle position. ie: you press on the throttle, it goes to the right, you release the throttle, it steers to the left. This problem is so common that most cars currently being driven will have had this corrected with urethane bushings.

DESIRABLE things to look for: dual-carbs. 4/2/1 header-pipe. Top boot intact and correct color.

Parts are quite readily available, and comparably inexpensive. Seats in good condition is a plus.

if you send me the ad, or give me info on where the car is, and a description, I'll post it on the Fiat forums where I'm active (two of my kids drive Spiders) and I will see if anyone knows the specific car and its history.

[RossoVeloce]

Thanks maytag