[Newman]

We'll move inside now and talk interior differences.

Im light on 365BB interior details so anyone feel free to correct me or add missing info if you can.....

Unsure of material covering the 365 dash, seen mouse hair and leather. The BB512 is leather but is not one piece in that the structure (or shell) of the dash sectioned together after covering it. There is joint in the dash around the radio stack on the BB as well as the instrument pod is seperate, the BBi is one piece right across with a seperate pod.

The carbed cars had no EQ from the factory and had dealer installed radios, the BBi was a factory installed setup with a 5 or 7 band EQ depending on build date in 83 all made by Pioneer with a cassette deck.

The floor console changed at least 3 times. 365 not sure if its the same as 512 but the injected cars were model specific. On the injected cars there was a chrome horse mounted on a leather stitched rectange ahead of the shifter. In 83 and 84 that horse remained but the leather no longer had stitches around the perimeter like the 82 did.

365 had the silver Momo steering wheel as did the BB512 up until 81 which swithced to the silver Nardi wheel for that year only. 82 switched to the black Nardi wheel, 84 went with the momo steering wheel found in the Testarossas. Now when I say specific years, nothing is carved in stone, there will be no doubt some inconsistancies simply because ferrari over lapped quite a bit on left over parts. I wouldnt be shocked to find an early 82 boxer with a silver nardi wheel, just never seen one that way. The same applies to the 5 or 7 band EQ as an example and since the VIN doesnt specify model year, some earlier built cars could be sold and registered later than the current cars causing model year confusion.

Seats. Early 365 had one piece cloth covered seats, later two piece. Early has no headrests, later does. Ive seen BB seat head rests with a horizontal groove stitched in, some smooth. The seatbacks on the 82 cars have an additional shell mounted to the rear with round vent grills at the lower end for ventilation so you dont sweat - doesnt help! 83 lost the shell, maybe those owners are comfy in the summer heat now.

More later

[Newman]

Rear parcel shelf on BBi has a lip along the entire edge that turns the shelf into something functional for small items. BB does not have the lip but still has the A/C compressor clearance hump as do all boxers.

A/C is optional on the 365

There was a leather option on the 512s that included a leather headliner, full leather door pockets and pull handles and solid leather seat skins. Without the leather option, the seats had cloth strip inserts, the headliner was cloth as were the door pockets and a small insert in the pull handle. Some owners with the leather option say theirs came with cloth seat inserts and everything else leather. I guess thats possible so never say never.

[Newman]

Something interior related is the tool kit on injected boxers. The BBi comes with a soft tool rool which has an additional zipped pouch to store the roll inside. The pouch has an embossed horse on both sides and its the same color as the interior. May tan interiored (is there such a word?) car has a matching tan leather zipped pouch, black interior, black zipped pouch and so on. The 365 and BB512 has a brief case rather than a pouch, the tools vary from model to model as well as the color of the tool trays inside that brief case.

Since all boxers were euro verisons they all had speedometers and odometers in kilometers. If you see MPH on any boxer speedo its a DOT modified speedometer which is one of the first hints you're looking at a car that was probably converted in the past even if it looks to be in Euro trim now.

Console switch gear varys on the boxer models for things like A/C and power mirrors. No boxer comes with a fasten seatbelt light unless it was converted for north american use, they usually mount them on the dash above the radio opening but sometimes found on the console. A light that aims at the console from under the dash eyebrow above the radio is also a conversion modification.

RHD boxers have the shifter mounted in the same left side location but the shifter lever itself is angled over to the right.

365 has no model designation anywhere on the car in the form of an emblem inside or out. 512BB and BBi has it on the glove box and clamshell.

[Newman]

The topic of weight comes up often because ferrari printed a weight spec for the 365 of almost 1000lbs lighter than the 512! Bologna. People seem to jump on this band wagon without thinking first. Same frame, give or take the odd small reinforcement. Same body (minor cosmetic changes), same length (people split hairs over length because of a chin spoiler), same height, same materials used to make the car in every way, Engine is the same physical size as is the gearbox. Where the 512 can be heavier and is, is the larger rear wheels, drysump lubrication tank and A/C. The lightest 365 will have no options, many came with air and power windows so the weight difference is minimal and the arguement is moot. Like optioned cars will be close and even a stripped 365 boxer cannot weigh 1000lbs lighter than a 512 and still have an engine in it.

Engine: 365, 4.4 liters, carbs, wetsump and single disc clutch. 340-360 HP depending on what book you're reading and even 380HP in prototype form.

BB512, 5 liter, carbs, drysump and dual disc clutch. 360HP, no prototype numbers that I recall

BB512i, 5 liter, CIS injection, drysump and dual disc clutch. 340HP at a lower redline.

All three boxers have different cam specs, Ive had sets of each in my collection of parts over time, measured them all. I think the 365 cam in the carbed 512 would be an improvement and yield higher peak HP numbers.

[Newman]

More engine numbers,

365 - 302lb/ft at 3900rpm
344HP at 7200 rpm
8.8:1 compression ratio

BB512 - 333lb/ft at 4600rpm
360HP at 7000 rpm
9.2:1 compression ratio

BB512i - 333lb/ft at 4200rpm
340HP at 6000
9.2:1 compresion ratio

Workshop manual puts both 512's at the same HP of 360HP. Ive never been in a 365 boxer but been in carbed and injected cars. I cant feel the difference in performance between the 512 versions. Have been told by an impartial individual that works on ferraris and does not own a boxer that the 365 lacks torque compared to the 512's and the injected car has the most out of the hole grunt. Ill be doing some testing on a carbed car and my injected car to compare. Ill dyno them both and do some performance measurements with something other than my but-o-meter.

One things Ive found consistant is that no boxer owner says the version he or she owns is the slowest or the worst performing version. We all have the best and fastest versions no matter what they are lol

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

BB owners and lovers are a bit eccentric and avante garde crowd, thus the belief that their own BBs are the best, which is true in their own ways. The three have different feel and characteristic. Whatever one's desire is the right choice. w/ smiles Jimmy

[tazandjan]

Paul- Great stuff, thanks. Theoretically, I owned 365 GT4 BB 17659 for a while, but never got a title and never drove it. That dates from the wild 70s, when all kinds of weird stuff was going on in the Ferrari world.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[tazandjan]

Just looked through the owners manuals for the BB, BB 512, and BBi and had not noticed before the steady reduction in red line from the 365 GT4/BB's 7000 rpm to the BB 512's 6800, to the BBi's 6600. All of these are a reduction from the Daytona's 7500 rpm redline.

Are these numbers reflected on the redlines on the tachometer? I notice the popular press like Road and Track gets redlines wrong all the time. They had the Daytona, 550, Barchetta, and 575M redlines at 7700 rpm, when all were in fact 7500 rpm. The fuel cut-off on the 575M is at 7600 rpm, and the two 550s are likely similar. Nothing prevented over-revving the Daytona except expensive noises.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[JazzyO]

Hi Taz,

the 365BB reflects a 7,700rpm redline on the tach. From my earlier discussions with other people on the net, and reading up on the literature, it seems to me that the F102A engine was bench tested by Ferrari well over 8500 rpms. However, it seems some engine(s?) broke. When the tach was made, Ferrari had decided on a 7,700rpm redline. However, between building the car and printing the manual, Ferrari decided to reduce the redline to 7,000 rpm.

I've driven my 365BB at over 7,000 rpm repeatedly. The car seemed very happy to do it (and in fact seemed to want more!). But I can't be sure it didn't do any damage.

Unfortunately I couldn't find a better image than this one, but you can see that the tach reads 7,700 with some difficulty.


Onno

[JazzyO]

Well, maybe not, after uploading. Let's try this again.

[tazandjan]

Onno- That is what I thought. Same redline as on the Daytona tachometer and you can see it here on my 575M, except redline is 7500, fuel cut-off is at 7600, so you can never get there under power. Guess it looks more impressive, but since many people never read the OMs, seems kind of risky.

On the 387 365 GT4/BBs built, you can see why they did not change it, but my tach is from a Superamerica and they surely knew the redline was 7500 after 5600 some 550/Barchetta and 575M cars built over 10 years. Another Ferrari mystery.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Here's another shot. w/ smiles Jimmy

[Barry]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Paul- Great stuff, thanks. Theoretically, I owned 365 GT4 BB 17659 for a while, but never got a title and never drove it. That dates from the wild 70s, when all kinds of weird stuff was going on in the Ferrari world.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Tell us more Terry?

[tazandjan]

Barry- Let me do some thinking on how to make it entertaining and not sad and I will tell the story.

Taz
Terry Phillips