[212Export]

Dear friends

While checking a little bit the Swiss 365 BB and 512 BB Boxer market, I made contact with 3 people willing to sell their carburated Boxers. One of them told me to send some updates and detailled pictures of his car. Saying that he took his car (which he did not use for many weeks before) from his Garage to the autobahn to drive it "warm" an later to clean it and take the photos. While on the autobahn he started to realize some smoke from behind, stopped, went out just to see how the car was starting to burn down compleately within minutes. Unfortunately he had no anti fire distinguisher with him (!) and the Swiss Firemans where to late there (20min. after phoning), so this guy writes (by email) and tells by phone all this as the reason why he's not able to send photos anymore. Very, very sad. Thankfully nothings happened to him personally.
A little later I called the Ferrai dealer and told him about the incident. He mentioned that it is of utmost importance to change the carburator hoses and gaskets (is this the right word in english?) because a small hole in those will "spray" the gaz under pressure over the hot engine and probably initiate the burning.

Now my question: Is the Boxer (maybe like the F40) especially construction induced endangered for burning?

[Boxer]

Old hoses and all the fule connections after the engine out cambelt change needed to be checked with care. I had a loose hose gasket on the 512BB once. Fortunately caught it before it turned into a serious problem. After that I checked all the connections on a regular basis. Also worth opening the engine hood every so often and doing a visual (and fuel vapor) inspection with it idleing.

[JazzyO]

Considering how many have survived in such a long time, I would say that the danger seems less than in the 599... I know of several 599's that have burnt down. I think that the Boxer doesn't have a specific additional danger as compared to other cars of that era.

But it's certainly true that in general hoses in old cars are a danger.

It's an interesting question, though, I'll ask my new mates at Fosker's if they know anything about it.


Onno

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

In general, BBs do have some basic design problems along w/ lack of maintenance that would lead to such disaster. Fuel lines beyond filler cap got rubber parts that do deteriorate and/ or loosen resulting in bonfire. Another spot is the camshaft seals deterioration leading to fuel spill w/ potential ignition. w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

Maybe it's a Switzerland thing. Last sunday near the Bodensee...

Onno

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

What a horrible situation to fine oneself in. And that car appears to be in good condition visually. Just a side note but similar things (bonfire) have occured lately w/ newer F-cars like F430 and 599. Sad sad. Jimmy

[212Export]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Maybe it's a Switzerland thing. Last sunday near the Bodensee...

Onno

Thats exactly the car......where have you found these pictures ?

[212Export]

I found it on google, it was one of the News publicized by the local television and Newspaper agency. Thank you very much anyway !

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by 212Export

Thats exactly the car......where have you found these pictures ?

The other Ferrariforum.... Shhhsssshh!


Onno

[Dmitri]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

The other Ferrariforum.... Shhhsssshh!


Onno

Other? There is only ONE.

[Chrishawk4]

Originally Posted by Dmitri

Other? There is only ONE.

As far as I'm concerned there is one and only forum

Chris

[agp22]

Originally Posted by Boxer

Old hoses and all the fule connections after the engine out cambelt change needed to be checked with care. I had a loose hose gasket on the 512BB once. Fortunately caught it before it turned into a serious problem. After that I checked all the connections on a regular basis. Also worth opening the engine hood every so often and doing a visual (and fuel vapor) inspection with it idleing.

Fully agree with Boxer, you can have an old car with brand new fuel lines and nothing like this would happen. Gotta take a good look at it from time to time, and keep your nose sharp for fuel smell.

I hope the guy was properly insured.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Chrishawk4

As far as I'm concerned there is one and only forum

Chris

Sorry, but I disagree. Not to take away anything from this forum, and you all know I'm here every day, but I frequent two other Ferrari forums because I meet a different circle of friends there, primarily Dutch Ferrari owners.


Onno

[Chrishawk4]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Sorry, but I disagree. Not to take away anything from this forum, and you all know I'm here every day, but I frequent two other Ferrari forums because I meet a different circle of friends there, primarily Dutch Ferrari owners.


Onno

Oh I know, I was joking. I go onto a dental forum also...I do not post really though.

Chris

[Dmitri]

What exactly is discussed on a dental forum, Chris?

I frequent this website quite a bit, it's very interesting and all about my future career. http://www.pathguy.com/

[212Export]

Originally Posted by agp22

Fully agree with Boxer, you can have an old car with brand new fuel lines and nothing like this would happen. Gotta take a good look at it from time to time, and keep your nose sharp for fuel smell.

I hope the guy was properly insured.

The owner of the burned 512 BB told me that is was underinsured, actually the insurance covered only 50% of the price for which he offered his car to be sold (200' Swiss Franc's = 125'000 Euro's).
Besides loosing that beautiful car he's angry about himself not raising the insurance sum.
I'm really not trying to judge but its interesting that the same person who may has not checked those hoses and gaskets orderly (to save maybe money) has not a sufficient insurance coverage (to save maybe again), which in these levels of figures are really no problem to cover with Swiss insurance companies.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by 212Export

The owner of the burned 512 BB told me that is was underinsured, actually the insurance covered only 50% of the price for which he offered his car to be sold (200' Swiss Franc's = 125'000 Euro's).
Besides loosing that beautiful car he's angry about himself not raising the insurance sum.
I'm really not trying to judge but its interesting that the same person who may has not checked those hoses and gaskets orderly (to save maybe money) has not a sufficient insurance coverage (to save maybe again), which in these levels of figures are really no problem to cover with Swiss insurance companies.

You spoke to him - are you sure was it not a case of just simply forgetting about it? Then that is really a hard lesson!


Onno

[212Export]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

You spoke to him - are you sure was it not a case of just simply forgetting about it? Then that is really a hard lesson!


Onno

Yes, as mentioned before, I talked to him because he offered he's car thru the web. I called him to ask if he would be able to send me some detailed pictures of the car, so I will be able to decide forehand to drive to him and have a serious look at his car. He was pleased to do so but unfortunately for most of the days last week, the weather was rather lousy here in Switzerland. When the sun finally showed of on Sunday, he decided to take the car from his garage, warm it up on the Autobahn and go and wash it, to make a "splendid" impression for the photos to be taken. But then on the way to that......it happened. (All according to his saying)
On Monday morning I received his email saying that he is terribly sorry but that he will not be able anymore to send pictures from the car becuase it burned down.....! I was totally shocked and thought first of a joke. So I called him imediatelly but he just confirmed what he wrote and added the story about the undercoverage and that he had thought about several times of calling the insurance company to adapt the insurance to the new price levels.
We have to think about that the present price levels for Boxers have not been that high 12 or 18 months ago therefore the speed of adaptation insurance wise is easy to be missed.

[JazzyO]

Well, I very, very, very nearly had my own burning BB experience yesterday!!

Driving back from Germany to Holland yesterday, I noticed my engine not running so smoothly and a few minutes later I smelled petrol. Having seen this very thread recently, I pulled over as soon as I could! As I got out, I saw vapours coming from under the car like I had just arrived at the set of Lord of the Rings. Looking at the back of the car, I saw what I can only describe as a waterfall in gasoline, pouring onto the engine and exhaust. I ran to the car to switch it off and then dashed to the passenger seat where I keep a fire extinguisher. I opened the engine cover to let the engine cool down, meanwhile keeping the fire extinguisher at hand to spring into action if required.

I phoned my specialist and he suggested to switch on the ignition to see where the petrol was leaking. I tried this and immediately saw a large volume pour over the engine again - it was the fuel line supplying the carbs that had come loose! Thankfully the fuel did again not ignite and we pushed the car so it was no longer sitting on top of the lost fuel.

Half an hour later my specialist had arrived on the scene and he quickly identified the culprit: a t-piece was made of inferior material that could not stand the heat of the engine. Consequently the t-piece had melted shut, thus preventing flow to the second set of cylinders. Eventually the fuel pressure had just blown the hose off the t-piece.

After a little searching in local shops my specialist (thanks Alex!) returned with a t-piece and we were on our way again. Arrived at home, I had to have a few nice drinks to come to terms with what might have happened - this Boxer could very, very easily not have existed anymore. Thanks to foruims like this, and threads like this, I was aware of the potential danger and stopped the car quickly enough so that nothing happened, but it was a close one!

Anyone looking to buy a Boxer, take this from me: CHECK THE FUEL LINES PERSONALLY!!!

If you really look at the system, you wonder why there are still so many Boxer's around, because it really is designed to be a disaster waiting to happen...


Onno

[stile - alpine]

Onno, what a terrible surprise!!!! Thank God (and 212Export) you were faster than fire and saved your dear Boxer!

Just for this I think FL has done it's share to help the world be a better place hehehehehe