[Daytona73]

You have a PM JazzyO (I agree with you concerning the pop-ups.)

#18011







The Original color of the car was Silver/Argento

[bower365bb]

I remenber they were asking 145 K€ for this Boxer !

[JazzyO]

Thanks for the explanation from your side - I always thought it was the broker that screwed things up.

Interesting to see Argento with Beige, all the other Argento's I know of have black hide interior...


Onno

[Daytona73]

Yes generally Argento can also be seen with red interior (cartier).
Here are some more modern car with Argento/tan.




If we keep the car maybe on day we'll go back to Argento .Very nice on boxers.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Daytona73

Hello from France ,

My father and I have always been Boxer fans,after about 20 year of 512 BB ownership and 6 years of 365 BB ,I was very surprise how (with a same look) the 365 is so different and respond so well.It feels more quick and light .The higher rev over the 512 are fabulous!!!

The clutch of the 365 doesn't feel harder to push but a little more difficult to understand.

Here are photos of #18011





Excuse my bad English ,I tried my best.(from my school memories...)

Welcome to FLife and your english is significantly better than my schoolboy French. On the BB clutch, the 365 has a single plate and the 512 a double plate. The single is much heavier.

[IPF]

Originally Posted by Daytona73

If we keep the car maybe on day we'll go back to Argento .Very nice on boxers.
Attachment 18859

Bienvenue à vous, monsieur!

Lovely, lovely car, congratulations. If ever you do indeed go back to argento on your BB, please do post a few more pics. Silver and blue to me are the most refined colours on BBs, esp. combined with the 'Boxer trim'.

A+,
Irvin

[Daytona73]

Thank you for the welcome ,Boxer and Irvin.

The car is for sale so the next owner will either keep it like it is or choose his favorite color. (but if we decide for the silver and keep the car, I will post pics of the paint work)

Concerning the thread subject I read an interesting article of Michael Sheehan from 2005, I hope it's not a repost.

http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0001.html

[Daytona73]

In blue

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Daytona73

In blue


Attachment 18892
Attachment 18893

That is a great looking BB

[Daytona73]

More blue

[IPF]

Stunning, absolutely stunning...

[JazzyO]

Both blue Boxers are #17543, currently owned by Geno Berns, who also owns the red BBi. Colour is Blu Ribot - the colour in which mine was ordered but not delivered.


Onno

[Daytona73]

I didn't have all this informations,thanks.

When I see the Dinos prices (and their production) I don't understand the differences in value with the Boxers.I still think Boxers are undervalued.

For example in 1989/90 ( Ahh! these years!!) a 246 was 1 Million Francs and any Boxers was 2,5 Millions Francs...

No misunderstandings, I LOOOVE Dinos 206,246 and know them but I would like to have your opinions on the subject.

[JazzyO]

I agree that Boxers are undervalued. There are a lot of reasons for that, let me summarise my take on things:

1. They were never officially imported into the US and as a consequence were largely ignored by the USA. The required modifications to make them road legal didn't help things.
2. Engine above transmission didn't help balance.
3. Enzo and a large part of the Ferrari community never quite supported the 12-cylinders-in-the-back idea until the TR came out. I feel that a more positive support in the early years would have benefitted the Boxer.
4. The looks are, for a lot of (uninformed) people, a little too much like the cheaper 308/328, which dilutes their image as a rocketship.
5. They are intimidating to a lot of people and consequently they rarely get driven. This causes them to break down a lot - these cars need driving.
6. Because they rarely get driven, you don't see them often at meetings. So they are a bit of a mystery to even knowledgeable Ferrari fans.
7. They are expensive to maintain.

So the Boxer is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy as the "little-engine-that-couldn't". But I do think that perceptions are changing and with '70ies retro becoming more fashionable the Boxer will find its place, which in my mind should be about the place of the Daytona for the 365BB (its rarity compensating for the lack of image) and substantially lower for the 512's (with BB more desireable than BBi).


Onno

[Daytona73]

My take of things on your take of things :


I think there is a law (less restrictive) for the +30 years old car and their CO2 emissions .Do you know if a Boxer can be imported nowadays in USA without all the "Americaspec" modifications because of its collector status?

I know that the BBLM not so good results (compared to the Daytonas Gr4 Palmares) are due to their Engine above transmission balance.They also had to race against the 935 Porsches,wich were much quicker and didn't have gearbox lubrification problems (BBs often abandonned because of that).
For the non race car ,on the road,I feel it easier to drive than the Daytona (but the Daytona is better for the very hight speed above 240 km/h than the 365BB) and don't feel the balance problem but I have never experienced it hard on the track .( maybe you have ,me not yet...)

For the look I think that Boxers must be viewed in "real life".I believe that Boxers are not photogenic,and like you said they are rarely seen at meetings,so the more they will be seen the more they will be liked, it's up to us ... (cheap 308 look ,you killed me )

About the maintenance,the first expensive cost I see is the belt's distribution change that needs the engine to be out of the car.Without this (costly for sure) I think that a driven car wouldn't be not more costly than a modern Ferrari.

I think like you that the perception of BBs are changing (they are especially "discovered " in USA ) and that they are the next collector after the Daytonas if only their owners let Boxers to get out of their Fort Knox Garage more often.

The comparaison Dino/Boxer value (in 1989/90 and now) still intrigues me...

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by Daytona73

Do you know if a Boxer can be imported nowadays in USA without all the "Americaspec" modifications because of its collector status?

You can import them nowadays without problem.

Originally Posted by Daytona73

(cheap 308 look ,you killed me )

I don't think they look like 308's, but a lot of people do.

Originally Posted by Daytona73

About the maintenance,the first expensive cost I see is the belt's distribution change that needs the engine to be out of the car.Without this (costly for sure) I think that a driven car wouldn't be not more costly than a modern Ferrari.

Well, perhaps a perfect Boxer might be relatively light on cost, but not a lot of them are perfect. And even then, clutches are expensive and last 10k if you're lucky. Not at all like a modern Ferrari.

Originally Posted by Daytona73

The comparaison Dino/Boxer value (in 1989/90 and now) still intrigues me...

It does me, too. But you can't control the will of the masses - people prefer the Countach over the Boxer, something that baffles me to be honest.


Onno

[Daytona73]

Yes, I forgot the clutch and its need of the double exhaust removal for access.

people prefer the Countach over the Boxer, something that baffles me to be honest.

I think just like you.

[Daytona73]

[JazzyO]

Nice pics! #3 and #4 are the same car I posted in my restoration thread, #18665. Don't know the first, French, car. It's a 512BB by the looks of it. Same colour scheme, though. And finally a BBi in that colour scheme. Love it, I must say, really looks good. Can't wait for my car to look like that!


Onno

[Daytona73]

BBi the red in picture 2 ?

The French one was at the annual Ferrari meeting at Vigeant Sport & Collection "500 Ferrari contre le cancer"

http://yo.spc.free.fr/2006_09_Vigeant.htm


The 2009 edition was rainy but we had The Shell Historic Challenge.

http://yo.spc.free.fr/2009/2009_10_SC_I.htm

Your car is going to be fantastic in Blue Metal Dino.
Do you know where to get the white indicators lens or do you keep them Orange?