[hammaglamma]

I'm after a 512BB preferably with a BAR sticker for California. It seems hard enough trying to find a nice driver carb car as it is without the added challenge of the BAR issue. People have pointed me in the direction of registering the car out of state, but this seems to be a temporary fix and they get you in the end! Any help would be much appreciated.

[Granucci]

The car you look for does exist and not as rare as you belive: where in CA are you?

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Why don't you ask Michael Sheehan (of Southern California). I am sure he can help you find one. Good luck. w/ smiles Jimmy

[hammaglamma]

I'm in Los Angeles. I've been in touch with Michael Sheehan who's on the lookout for me, I just wondered if I should be more active in my search.

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by hammaglamma

I'm in Los Angeles. I've been in touch with Michael Sheehan who's on the lookout for me, I just wondered if I should be more active in my search.

You probably ought to in order to increase your options. w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

My understanding is that all vehicles over 25 years are exempt and any Boxer should qualify now, shouldn't they? You could get a nice one over from Europe, the dollar being where it is at the moment.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

Sadly, cars manufactured before 1976 are exempt from the ridiculous rulings, so the every 512 has to go through these insane and expensive tests to qualify for a BAR sticker in order to be registered in the state of California. Should I move back to London?

[sunskr]

Here is an option. A 365 GT/4 BB $$$$$ but does meet the pre 1976 year. Instead buy a condo w/garage in Las Vegas, NV.
Register and insure your 512BB at your vacation home in NV. and pocket the difference.

[JazzyO]

The 365BB will, IMHO, rise in value over the coming years. It is a rare car and more and more recognised for its unique position in Ferrari history. In the US there are very few, and all of them are federalised. It might make very good sense to import one right now, it would be quite special as it would be Euro spec. You will need $150k+ for a decent one, excluding shipping and import duty, so cheap it ain't going to be.

The other option might be restoring a car if you can find one (like I did just last month), but all in all you will need to look at $200k+ when you're all done. Still very much worth it in my opinion, awesome cars.

I have to ask the question as well - why a 512? Have you driven a 365? They are very different in character and you might prefer the 365. There are also people that prefer the 512BB and others still that prefer the BBi. But I urge you to try them out, it is a very revealing experience. You can read mine in FLQ #10, I think.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

I love the condo idea! I really want to buy a car in great shape as I've spent too much time dreaming about driving cars I've bought in the past that have sat for months in the workshop having resto work done. This is my first Ferrari and I thought a healthy 512 would be a great place to start. I love to drive and for me carbs are most definitely preferable to fuel injection. I haven't discounted the possibility of a 365 if one were to appear at the right price, but I'm not so bothered about the production numbers and the rarity factor, I just want to drive the thing. There seems to be a fairly large difference in the prices some people are hoping to achieve for their cars compared to others. Having not inspected the cars more than picture on the internet I'm not sure if it's the condition of the cars or unrealistic pricing, hoping to sell for prices these cars would have sold for 2 years ago.

[JazzyO]

Just beware that Boxers are finnicky. If they're not in great shape they'll give you endless problems. A Boxer that is classed as a "driver" usually stands still, in my experience. This is a car that needs a sympathetic owner.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

If a car has been standing for a number of years, can anyone tell me what it will definitely need? Is a major service necessary? I'm aware that a number of perishable rubber hoses need changing but I'm not exactly sure what to look for as far as engine, brakes, gearbox, suspension etc. Thanks so much for the wise words thus far.

[JazzyO]

One thing you MUST check before driving are the fuel lines on a carb boxer, they run on top of the engine to the carbs and from personal experience I know that they can easily come loose and dump petrol on the engine at high pressure. Very scary and often fatal for the car.

Bushes tend to go but that is a longer-term thing. Check for proper greasing. A brake bleed and replenish would be wise. As for major service, that is entirely dependent on the car. If the car was in good condition when stored, there's maybe no need for a major. But renewing hoses usually means the engine needs to come out, and then a major is not a bad thing, at least a belt change if you don't know when last it was done. Some other things to check regardless of whether the car has stood for a while: Clutches wear quickly on Boxers although the 512's less so because of their double plate. You still want to check that it grips correctly. When cold-starting a Boxer, it may smoke - that is normal. But after running her properly warm and then re-starting again, she should not smoke. On carb Boxers you should also expect a slight hiccup between switching to the high-rev and low-rev carb circuits. This means that they do not pull cleanly from 1000 to 7000rpms, they have a slight dip in power at 3.5 - 4k. That is normal - however, it is very important that the hiccup is very slight!

If a car has really been standing for a good number of years, such as the one I have just bought, then my philosophy is that you must just accept that it is going to need practically everything. Anything it doesn't need is then a bonus. And the good thing about that starting point is that you know the car is perfect mechanically and you can really enjoy it.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

Thanks so much for the great info. I knew about the fuel lines and the belts, but the rest of the tips are much appreciated. I should find out in the next couple of days about a car that's been standing for a number of years. I'm told they're doing a fair amount of work to bring the car to a good mechanical standard, but it does make me nervous there looms the possibility it might need 'everything'! 'Everything' sounds really expensive.

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by hammaglamma

'Everything' sounds really expensive.

It is. But for me, Boxers are just a pain in the neck until they're fully sorted. Maybe I'm just scarred from previous ownership experience, but I don't think so.

It doesn't mean that each Boxer needs so much work, though. But if they've been standing for years, then you should count on it.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

Maybe I should pack the whole idea in and buy a 575 instead.

[Dermot]

Originally Posted by hammaglamma

Maybe I should pack the whole idea in and buy a 575 instead.

Personally I'd go for a 550 (Yes I am biased :-) ), if you like v12 manual with amazing power, stunning looks and reliable then that's ur baby!!! The prices of these cars are very attractive at the moment at $75-95k, which is a lot of car for the money. You still need to be careful with ur selection of course as deferred maintenance can be expensive but I think you are still talking about a lot less headaches then the 512 (Wonderful car that the 512 is)

Personally I like to be driving my cars rather then working on them all the time so if thats an important consideration you might want to modify ur selection of Ferrari - Will this be ur first Ferrari BTW?

[JazzyO]

I own both a 550 and a Boxer and you can't compare them.

A Boxer is a glorious machine and worth every penny. But if you want modern motoring, then you should buy a modern car. The 550 is much cheaper to run and yes, gives me no headaches. It is a wonderful machine that gets under my skin. Dependable and very fast with a fantastic engine. But it cannot match my Boxer for sheer drama and driving fun. A trip in the Boxer feels like a once-in-a-lifetime experience and you never get used to it. It gives me a bigger smile on my face than the 550, which is more of a subtle experience. The difference between a vodka shooter in a night club and a good glass wine with a good book.

So - hammaglamma, you have to decide what it is that you want, and what your budget is. A carb boxer will relieve you of about double the annual cost of a 550.

And go and drive these things!! All this talking is all just theory - you need to experience it to understand it.


Onno

[hammaglamma]

I've owned a long line of Porsche 911's up to a 993 Turbo S, which I loved and regret selling. Since then I've owned a series of old American muscle cars. At present I have a '67 Mustang track car and a '69 Camaro with a big block 427 motor. I completely understand what you describe as that 'once in a lifetime experience', and that's what I'm looking for. I've never had a Ferrari before and for some reason I've decided now is the time. The excitement of a car with no unnecessary electronics and a glorious flat 12 motor appeals to me. I'm not so concerned with the regular maintenance, it's more a case of buying the right car so I don't end up with a 50k bill before I get to even drive the thing. Having said all that, a car like the 550/575 does appeal to me as it's been such a long since I've had a fun car that doesn't give me nightmares!

[Dermot]

Originally Posted by hammaglamma

I've owned a long line of Porsche 911's up to a 993 Turbo S, which I loved and regret selling. Since then I've owned a series of old American muscle cars. At present I have a '67 Mustang track car and a '69 Camaro with a big block 427 motor. I completely understand what you describe as that 'once in a lifetime experience', and that's what I'm looking for. I've never had a Ferrari before and for some reason I've decided now is the time. The excitement of a car with no unnecessary electronics and a glorious flat 12 motor appeals to me. I'm not so concerned with the regular maintenance, it's more a case of buying the right car so I don't end up with a 50k bill before I get to even drive the thing. Having said all that, a car like the 550/575 does appeal to me as it's been such a long since I've had a fun car that doesn't give me nightmares!

I think you want your first Ferrari experience to be a good one :-) So the 550/575 is definitively a good pick - Other options might be a TR or 512 TR if you are a committed 12 cylinder gu - They were the direct successor of the 512BB (Boxer) and if you are looking for a more "Miami Vice" look then that might be a route to take. I've never owned a TR so I cant give u any feedback, (I did drive a 512TR for a day and enjoyed the experience) but I'm sure some of the other guys here can pitch in (+ you can check out the buyers guides on the site)

cheeers